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  1. gr81disp is offline

    Registered Member

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    Feb 2003
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    Posted On:
    1/27/2007 2:39pm


     Style: BJJ (on hiatus)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I do care about certain belts but not because of the pretty colors. I care about Bjj belts because it represents a true accomplishment and not just a representative of time spent in class. However, the first day he tried to sell me on the belts, I saw a new yellow belt (1 up from white) still trying to figure out how to tie the damn thing.

    Anyways, thank guys, you have helped me put things in perspective.
  2. boxingbear is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    2/24/2007 3:36pm


     Style: Shotokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    :qpepsi: why don't u just train in one art,and get ur bb.then just start adden the other arts. it would be better,and u will have something to fall back on in the ring or fight. plus some schools will let u train for free. because u then can help in class or the teacher of that school can also learn a new art. think about it! the champs of the mma world all have train in one art, and then add the others. and yes, the belt ranking with all those colors is only for getting money. the most i have paid was $35. and was for my yellow belt.the money was for my rank in the jka . witch teachs shotokan karate. and i have my bb in. then i started adden other mm. like judo and jiu-jitsu
    Last edited by boxingbear; 2/24/2007 3:39pm at .
  3. Tom Kagan is offline
    Tom Kagan's Avatar

    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    2/28/2007 8:37am

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by gr81disp
    Thanks Omega, always the understanding one.

    You're right, it isn't the $112.50/month (hence $110+), its the belt fees and isn't that they are that exorbitant, it just seems like it is an unnecessary grab for money. It is more a matter of principle but maybe I should just swallow it for the next 6+ months and train.

    Oh, and it is his belt in MMA.
    I don't believe belt fees, in and of themselves, are an "unnecessary grab for money" as long as the fees are clear upfront. The door to the school has to be kept open and payment for services rendered have to be collected somehow.

    Like any other consumer transactions, the real question is whether you are getting any value for your money. For instance, if the place costs a lot when everything is added up, one would expect (outside of the actual curriculum) a clean and safe place where unseen issues are taken care of (such as proper insurance coverage and a legal permit to use the space in the fashion it is being used).

    But, if you have the impression the studio owner is just working a way to pay for the super-duper spinnaker sail on his boat, the fees, no matter how small, may actually be a symptom of a bigger problem at the school.
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
  4. cyrijl is offline
    cyrijl's Avatar

    Light Heavyweight

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    Boston, MA
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    Posted On:
    2/28/2007 4:01pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, MT, Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I do care about certain belts but not because of the pretty colors. I care about Bjj belts because it represents a true accomplishment and not just a representative of time spent in class. However, the first day he tried to sell me on the belts, I saw a new yellow belt (1 up from white) still trying to figure out how to tie the damn thing.
    BJJ has a yellow belt?
    There is no cheating, there is only jiu-jitsu.
  5. Sam Browning is online now

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    Posted On:
    2/28/2007 4:28pm

    hall of famestaff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by gr81disp
    I have just gotten back into martial arts at a new school which teaches MMA. I took a two week trial and liked my instruction, at least the standup portion (nobody else had any experience in Bjj or such so no sparring, which I can kinda understand). I rolled with the instructor a couple of times and wasn't really that impressed although there is no denying he is better than me. That is not the problem. The problem came after I signed the contract. I had been going for about 2 months when he began talking to me about belt testing. This wasn't that unusual as I was only a couple months from my blue when I had stopped Jiu-Jitsu (I have the chronic stop again start again syndrome which I am trying to work on) but needed some heavy refreshing as it had been about 2 yrs since. I figured I would work hard and be ready to test.

    Anyways, I had looked at the belt ranking system AFTER signing up (big mistake it turns out) and noticed he had about 9 or 10 belts before black. I didn't think much about it as he wasn't teaching BJJ but his own blend. Then he drops two bombs on me. 1. The belt test are $50. 2. No sparring before Orange belt (two up from white). I haven't been back since. That was over a month ago. What do ya'll think?

    PS. $110+/month
    Depending where you are, and how many classes you get a week, $110 per month is not a high figure to pay. If he was advertising BJJ, and using that particular rank system, it is not the rank system that is generally used in BJJ. White, Blue, Purple, Brown, Black. (often with stripes)

    If you are taking MMA then the no sparring before orange belt rule is bs, though its understandable if he more strickly limits the level of contact in this sparring. In BJJ its called "rolling" and you would be doing that from the beginning classes.

    I hate belt testing fees with a passion but the real issue is that you seem to be saying that he was claiming to teach MMA or BJJ and his ranking and class proceedures suggest its actually some variation of Karate. This would be misleading advertising, if you are describing the situation accurately.
  6. GoldenJonas is offline

    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    2/28/2007 4:48pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    gr81disp, does this school have a website?

    Does the instructor hold any verifiable rank in BJJ sufficient to qualify his representation that he is teaching BJJ?

    This would be were my concern would be.

    Belt testing fees suck but many, many schools have them. Some schools provide you with a certificate and buy the belt or embroider the belt, etc., etc. Most schools are not making money hand over fist so they have to recoup costs somewhere. Belt testing fees does not a McDojo make.

    Lying about your qualifications to teach fairly well regulated art like BJJ, however, is Bullshido.
    Last edited by GoldenJonas; 2/28/2007 4:52pm at .
  7. gr81disp is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    2/28/2007 11:49pm


     Style: BJJ (on hiatus)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    See, he isn't claiming to teach Bjj, he is teaching MMA, a much looser qualification. I haven't seen anything about his rank in Bjj nor have I asked because I don't want to insult him. He seems like a genuinely nice guy, but sometimes has the used car salesman thing going. Truthfully, it isn't even so much the belt fee, I would pay $50 per belt for Bjj, as it is the belt fee COMBINED with the sheer number of belts.
  8. GoldenJonas is offline

    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    2/28/2007 11:55pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If it is not a matter of misrepresented qualifications and it is simply a matter of money then the simple answer is...it's your money, if you don't like the fee schedule, go train someplace else.

    Problem solved.
  9. DON'T SH*T ME ! is offline

    Registered Member

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    Dec 2005
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    Houston, Texas
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    106

    Posted On:
    3/02/2007 10:13am


     Style: Unemployed Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What is this instructor's martial arts background?
    What did he learn & who did he learn from?
  10. Drunx is offline

    Featherweight

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    Mar 2007
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    Posted On:
    3/02/2007 7:17pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Judo, Kungfu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    From personal experience, I believe the belt examination fees are a bit of a necessity to maintian a school.

    I used to study Kungfu at a school that was a few blocks away from my place (located under a Buddhist Temple. I live in Korea Town.) The monthly fee was actually quite generous (2 months plan being lowest at about $60) and the master allowed students in to train at anytime during the days and weekends, as well as obtained several weight equipments and punching bags. (To avoid flaming, this master was actually more into use of techniques in real life situation. Most "traditional" Kung fu was removed to add in more practical techniques including throws and grapples).

    Anyways, before I sidetrack even more, the belt exams ($20) seems to be the only way for some schools to afford the rent. My school, unfortunately, was unable to keep up with the rent and was kicked off the island.

    I conclude saying that if the school is good, I don't think having some belts and fees for "upgrades" is necessarily a bad thing. Unless the prices are ridiculous.
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