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  1. gringokahn is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/26/2007 6:00pm


     Style: BJJ, MMA, Judo, WTF TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If your school makes you do renamed Katas that are actually stolen from another art =(+8pts)

    If your school makes you bow to multiple flags and to a picture of the Grandmaster before and after class = (+5pts)

    If your school has a Grandmaster with an unverifyable background/record = (+8pts)

    If your school's Grandmaster is a Grandmaster recognized or bestowed by the World Soke Headship = (+12pts)

    If your school makes you do or sit in deep horse stances = (+8pts)

    If your school does staged demos in public places = (+6pts)

    If you have a full size cardboard cut-out of Bruce Lee in your schools lobby = (+10tpts)
  2. Virus is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    1/26/2007 6:17pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Axelton
    That is true.

    Its just all the posts of his i've read of late have something along the lines of

    "If you dont fight like in the UFC you suxorz!1!1!"
    Sometimes I parody my own nutriding. Such as "anything over 0 = leave your school".
    Last edited by Virus; 1/26/2007 6:19pm at .
  3. Schattenfaust is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/26/2007 7:10pm


     Style: Wrestling and Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The only point my boxing gym got was from not having sparring, but that's because we don't have a ring and currently train in the under level of a firehouse. I think the coach is working on getting one put up, but I can't remember right now. On the other hand, except for the occasional sparring it looks like my old karate school was pure bullshido. Feels good to be proven right.
  4. Ke?poFist is offline
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    Enforcer of Northeast Anti-Silliness Department Inc.

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    Posted On:
    1/26/2007 8:22pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kaju, BJJ, Judo, Kempo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by gringokahn
    If your school makes you do renamed Katas that are actually stolen from another art =(+8pts)

    If your school makes you bow to multiple flags and to a picture of the Grandmaster before and after class = (+5pts)

    If your school has a Grandmaster with an unverifyable background/record = (+8pts)

    If your school's Grandmaster is a Grandmaster recognized or bestowed by the World Soke Headship = (+12pts)

    If your school makes you do or sit in deep horse stances = (+8pts)

    If your school does staged demos in public places = (+6pts)

    If you have a full size cardboard cut-out of Bruce Lee in your schools lobby = (+10tpts)
    I like the Sokeship council being an important one, as well as the bowing to the pictures and such, but I'd only give a point or so for that because it doesn't reflect on what's taught but rather just a common red flag of outdated traditionalism.
    Knowing is not enough, you must apply...
    ...Willing is not enough you must do
    ~Bruce Lee

  5. Virus is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/26/2007 10:32pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Most of these things on the list exist in clusters. Memetic theory would suggest that these ideas are able to successfully reproduce when neighboring ones are present as well. For example "too deadly" will often thrive alongside "sparring is not realistic: and "UFC isn't realistic" since they all serve to re-enforce the survival of the "I don't need to spar" idea. This idea most comfortably exists in those who are too fat and lacking in actual functional skill to fight, combined with the fact that schools which rank highly on this scale have a tendency to teach techniques that become extremely low percentage against an alive opponent.
    Last edited by Virus; 1/26/2007 10:39pm at .
  6. Virus is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/26/2007 10:45pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The best bujinkan class I ever trained in still gets a 29 by this scale.

    BJJ and judo = 0 for the pwnz0r.
  7. Kato_1 is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/26/2007 11:04pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Jiu-jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Interesting questionnaire. Much of it bullshit, but interesting.

    The assumption seems to be that only arts that teach "real" fighting are worth taking. I don't agree. I have have trained in karate and loved it. Did I think it made me a good street fighter? No, but that's not why I was there.

    Currently do I spar to medium/hard contact every day? Nope, sorry we don't have classes every day and I have a wife and kids, so training every day is out of the question.

    Does my instructor have "certification" to teach grappling? No, but he's almost 60 and happy to get on the mat with anyone. May not win every time, but you can feel the experience in him when you grapple with him.

    In many arts, kata and horse stances are valuable training tools. That doesn't make them something that can be applied on its own.

    By the way, my dojo ranks as follows:

    2. You spar/roll medium to hard contact: I'll take a 0.5 here since it's every class but classes aren't every day.

    11. You spend time learning how to utilize pressure points to control or incapacitate your opponent (+1 pts).
    As I said above, no technique stands on its own. We learn pressure points as part of an arsenal at your disposal. I'll take the +1

    17. Grappling being taught but there being no certification of the instructor having formal training or competition experience. (+3pts)
    Bullshit statement. "formal" according to whom? Competition doesn't make you qualified to teach it

    So I guess I get a 1.5
    Last edited by Kato_1; 1/26/2007 11:08pm at .
  8. Virus is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/27/2007 12:01am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Post count <2000 = Don't listen to them. ;)

    But seriously;

    Kempofist has made a pretty good list of red flags that indicate a school might be bullshido. It has nothing to do with how much people enjoy the social interaction of joining a club. if you enjoyed your karate and you knew that it wasn't the ideal use of time for becoming a better fighter then that's great. I myself used to have a great time doing bujinkan because I used to train with great people, money wasn't a big issue with instructors and we were all friends and had a good laugh while training. However I DID want to learn things that would work if I needed them to, and that was the primary reason I started martial arts. I later came to see that my time was better spent elsewhere if I was to work towards that goal. I was still exposed to a whole bunch of retard-stupid **** while I was there and most of them happen to be on that list.

    But the fact is that 99.999% of "martial arts clubs" DON'T bill themselves as a place to hang out, meet some new friends and maybe get your heart rate up a bit. They all claim to teach FIGHTING, and anyone that has followed the development of martial arts, especially the evolution of MMA can plainly see that the majority of them deliver poorly on that claim, if at all. Combine this fact with a little knowledge of sports specificity training or even some common sense and it's apparent why this is the case. Several points need to be made in defense of the Kemopfist's article:

    - I think he means "sparring at every session" not "sparring every day".

    - People ARE getting on the ground and teaching ridiculous crap that was made up in some sensei's head. It would be a sheer fluke if any of that was applicable to real ground-based combat.

    - Kata and horse-stances are not valuable training tools because they fail to significantly replicate any aspect of alive combat.

    - There ARE schools out there that teach pressure points as magic bullets that stop bigger, stronger and more aggressive opponents. This is in lieu of reliable technique that is found to hold up against an equally skilled opponent. (because most of the clubs that engage in this don't have any)

    - The reliable grappling arts (BJJ and Judo as I believe we are talking about ground-grappling?) Have systems in place to ensure that anyone that teaches has met a minimum standard of competancy in skills. Competition is a big component of this assessment along with time in training, sparring hours and the ability to blow out a candle with chi. Standards are a good thing and it's what you expect from any member of a profession or trade.

    Please let me know if I have mis-interpreted anything. I might not listen though because post count below mine = ****.
    Last edited by Virus; 1/27/2007 12:06am at .
  9. Axelton is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/27/2007 12:03am


     Style: Wing Chun, Hung Gar

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Virus
    Sometimes I parody my own nutriding. Such as "anything over 0 = leave your school".
    Its sokay Virus. I still love you. I've had my sammich now so im in a better mood.
  10. Bladesinger is offline

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    Appleton, WI
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    Posted On:
    1/27/2007 12:20am


     Style: MMA, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Virus
    Please let me know if I have mis-interpreted anything. I might not listen though because post count below mine = ****.
    That's ok, I still love you and your Dark Angel-with-old school-all goblin green-base avatar.


    I'm going to pay for that, aren't I?
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