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  1. Nate1481 is offline
    Nate1481's Avatar

    Why did they never try this....

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    Posted On:
    1/26/2007 9:22am

    supporting member
     Style: Jujutsu/Mixed

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    JJ club = 7/8 depending on some bits. What I thought already not great but some good bits.
    BJJ = 0. Big surprise there then.
    "This won't hurt me a bit..." - My training partner.:new_astha
  2. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/26/2007 9:37am

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KempoFist
    I'm sure this has been done a few times before, but I feel it has to be done right, and hopefully eventually stickied after some revisions in newbietown so we can cut down on a lot of unnecessary BS arguing that's been done to death.

    How to tell if your school is Bullshido or not for the untrained eye.
    This is a list of red flags that should go up when training at or viewing a school. Add up the points with the numbers you've experienced to see where your school falls.

    Keep in mind that some questions may not apply to your school (eg. boxing gym isn't expected to teach grappling) BUT if your school does attempt to teach something they are not focused on, then holding them to these standards applies. Be as honest as possible with yourself, and then take a long hard look at what you're actually spending your time and money on, as opposed to what you could be doing.

    1. There are Black Belts under the age of 13 (+3pts)

    2. You spar/roll medium to hard contact:
    Every day (+0 pts)
    Once a week (+1pts)
    Once a month (+3 pts)
    Never (+5 pts)

    3. You're told MMA isn't like "real" fighting (+1pts)

    4. The majority of the techniques you learn you can't pull off live in sparring, and you've never seen your instructor nor anyone else use them successfully either. (+2pts)

    5. If #4 applied to you, then when questioning your instructor about that issue, you get the response that this is because the moves are too "dangerous" or "deadly" to be used within sparring or rolling. Usually this is followed up by a quick reminder about "how we all want to get to work" the next day, and how we aren't out to hurt each other. (+4 pts)

    6. You ever hear the words "anti-grappling" being used to describe what you are learning (+2pts)

    7. You're told sparring builds bad habits (+4pts)

    8. You are never shown to cover properly to protect from strikes, but rather were shown a plethora of intricate blocks and parries. (+2pts)

    9. Belief in "No-Touch Knockouts" (+3pts)

    10. Belief in the practical use of mystical "chi" energy in every day combat. (+2pts)

    11. You spend time learning how to utilize pressure points to control or incapacitate your opponent (+1 pts)

    12. Your instructor pronounces Royce Gracie's name with an "R" (+1pts)

    13. Testing for rank requires only repeating moves in the air or on mostly compliant partners/uke's. (+2pts)

    14. You spend more classtime watching your instructor demonstrate techniques on compliant dummies, than you do actually trying to apply those techniques live. (+2pts)

    15. For every adult student there is 15 child students (+1pts)

    16. You're taught kata is to a martial artist as shadowboxing or heavybag work is to a boxer (+1pts)

    17. Grappling being taught but there being no certification of the instructor having formal training or competition experience. (+3pts

    18. You've never seen your instructors spar or roll with anyone but compliant uke's (+2pts)

    19. You're told that ANY strike whatever it may be (groin kick, shin kick, eye gouge etc...) will stop any attacker in their tracks. (+2pts)

    20. Everyone's uniform is clean pressed and neat, in good condition and perhaps even has pretty little sew on patches that don't look faded or worn in the least. (+2pts)

    21. You simply look at the higher ranks, and can plainly see that they are unfit/can't spar/or just plain suck. (+4pts)






    SCORING:
    0-2 Your school is an awesome place to train. Good find!
    3-5 Some fishy stuff, but still sounds pretty good.
    6-10 There's a few red flags here, but perhaps you or they can explain themselves.
    11-15 I'm not liking your explanation
    16+ Your school is undoubtedly a bullshido ridden mess. Get out while you still can! Don't drink the Kool-Aid!
    Dude, Kempo you're killing me here:

    1. 0
    2. 1
    3. 1
    4. 0
    5. n/a
    6. 2
    7. 0
    8. what the **** is that supposed to mean?
    9. (so tempted to put a joke here)
    10. 2
    11. 1
    12. 0
    13. 0
    14. 0
    15 0
    16. 1 (**** you)
    17. 0
    18. 0
    19. 0
    20. 0
    21. 0

    6-10 There's a few red flags here, but perhaps you or they can explain themselves.

    ::: middle finger ::::
  3. FickleFingerOfFate is offline
    FickleFingerOfFate's Avatar

    Guess which finger is the fickle one...

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    Posted On:
    1/26/2007 9:46am

    supporting member
     Style: Karate/ Arnis

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sparring once a week +1

    Tests are done in air/ Compliant uke (only at low belt levels) +1



    Total +2
  4. Epicurus is offline

    I'm grindin' 'till I'm tired...

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    Posted On:
    1/26/2007 9:50am


     Style: Judo. Some BJJ/Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by pl4zM4
    The test is schewed though, if you are posting on Bullshido.net for any length of time, you will be scorring < 2 points. I'd more curious to see this test on MAP.
    Agreed, my kickboxing school is 0 points and it's not even a super-amazing school. Although I'm not sure what the instructor's exact certification is, I know he's been in Judo competitions so I still handed out a zero.

    I'd be kinda shocked for a school to get points... many of these are pretty major offenses. Also, shouldn't no-touch KO's be worth more, as was mentioned?
    "[Fighting for Points] is doubtless very pretty, and invariably draws applause, but preferences should always be given to blows that do some business, to good straight hits that do something toward finishing the fight.
    A man who has carefully trained for brilliant tapping play, will find himself considerably out of it in case he is called upon to do any real work."
    -A.J. Newton, Boxing.
  5. rw4th is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    1/26/2007 9:53am


     Style: BJJ,MT,RBSD (on hiatus)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KempoFist
    I like the conditioning not being a factor being added it. Though I would like to keep the points within reasonable numbers, to prevent unnecessary schools from gaining too many points and beeing deemed bullshido. For example I think every BJJ school tells people that size and strength don't matter in Jiu-Jitsu in one degree or another. I also don't want things like "your school teaches _ing _un +50pts" because that will take away from a new users objective viewing of the poll and they won't take it seriously. Rather have their chun school get 20+ points on its own merits :)

    And yes Cormoron this is a serious thread. You may neg rep me now and hump MJS's leg ;)
    In BJJ they might says say that size and strenght are not always a factor , but CONDITIONING (especially endurance) is always a factor.
  6. Cormoran is offline

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    Adelaide, Australia
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    Posted On:
    1/26/2007 9:57am


     Style: Shotokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    And yes Cormoron this is a serious thread. You may neg rep me now and hump MJS's leg ;)
    That's cool, i'll just throw in my short rant.

    1. There are Black Belts under the age of 13 (+3pts)

    Nope, minimum age is 16 for black belt where i go.

    2. You spar/roll medium to hard contact:
    Every day (+0 pts)
    Once a week (+1pts)
    Once a month (+3 pts)
    Never (+5 pts)

    I'll take +2 points on this as it varies depending on how many people come in each lesson, sometimes once a month sometimes twice a week, usually somewhere in between.

    3. You're told MMA isn't like "real" fighting (+1pts)

    Nope.

    4. The majority of the techniques you learn you can't pull off live in sparring, and you've never seen your instructor nor anyone else use them successfully either. (+2pts)

    Every now and then we'll try something different, when it don't work there's a few giggles then it never gets tried again. So, nope.

    6. You ever hear the words "anti-grappling" being used to describe what you are learning (+2pts)

    Nope.

    7. You're told sparring builds bad habits (+4pts)

    Nope. (tho i learnt a few from the game of tag GKR calls sparring)

    8. You are never shown to cover properly to protect from strikes, but rather were shown a plethora of intricate blocks and parries. (+2pts)

    I'll give this a +1 simply because it's karate, but we do learn how to properly cover ourselves aswell.

    9. Belief in "No-Touch Knockouts" (+3pts)

    Nope.

    10. Belief in the practical use of mystical "chi" energy in every day combat. (+2pts)

    Idea where we train is that chi is just a concept for proper breathing, so nothing "mystical" there, nope.

    11. You spend time learning how to utilize pressure points to control or incapacitate your opponent (+1 pts)

    We do some pressure point stuff now and then, tho the idea is that it usually only works on people who don't know the difference between annoyance and pain. It certainly doesn't work on the sensei. Spose i'd give this a 0.5

    12. Your instructor pronounces Royce Gracie's name with an "R" (+1pts)
    /rant on.
    it IS pronounced with an R. This isn't Brazil! Everyone here pronounces my last name wrong, i don't get uppity because i'm not in the Netherlands, i wouldn't expect them to say it correctly so RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRoyce shouldn't either. Besides, i learnt the hard way from GKR that if you get taught more about language than fighting, i don't care what MA you do, it's ****....... and it's Jesus! not heyseuss! there's no green eggs and fucking ham here!
    /rant off

    13. Testing for rank requires only repeating moves in the air or on mostly compliant partners/uke's. (+2pts)

    Nope.

    14. You spend more classtime watching your instructor demonstrate techniques on compliant dummies, than you do actually trying to apply those techniques live. (+2pts)

    Nope.

    15. For every adult student there is 15 child students (+1pts)

    Nope, but then we don't even HAVE 15 people training.

    16. You're taught kata is to a martial artist as shadowboxing or heavybag work is to a boxer (+1pts)

    Nope. Would kinda negate our heavy bag work if we thought like that.

    17. Grappling being taught but there being no certification of the instructor having formal training or competition experience. (+3pts

    No grappling gets taught but every now and then when we spar we get a bit overzealous and it goes to the ground, got a few guys who do grappling elsewhere so when that happpens they pwn. I learned one thing doing that tho, i need to get my arse in gear and find a place that does grappling.

    18. You've never seen your instructors spar or roll with anyone but compliant uke's (+2pts)

    Nope.

    19. You're told that ANY strike whatever it may be (groin kick, shin kick, eye gouge etc...) will stop any attacker in their tracks. (+2pts)

    Nope.

    20. Everyone's uniform is clean pressed and neat, in good condition and perhaps even has pretty little sew on patches that don't look faded or worn in the least. (+2pts)

    Worn yes. I'd hope they're clean atleast though, stinks bad enough half way thru class. Don't need to be wearing something that smells like old gym socks before you've even started training. as for pressed, i don't even OWN an iron so that's a no for me.

    21. You simply look at the higher ranks, and can plainly see that they are unfit/can't spar/or just plain suck. (+4pts)

    Nope.


    3.5 without my rant, 4.5 with it.
  7. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/26/2007 10:01am

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cormoran
    That's cool, i'll just throw in my short rant.

    1. There are Black Belts under the age of 13 (+3pts)

    Nope, minimum age is 16 for black belt where i go.

    2. You spar/roll medium to hard contact:
    Every day (+0 pts)
    Once a week (+1pts)
    Once a month (+3 pts)
    Never (+5 pts)

    I'll take +2 points on this as it varies depending on how many people come in each lesson, sometimes once a month sometimes twice a week, usually somewhere in between.

    3. You're told MMA isn't like "real" fighting (+1pts)

    Nope.

    4. The majority of the techniques you learn you can't pull off live in sparring, and you've never seen your instructor nor anyone else use them successfully either. (+2pts)

    Every now and then we'll try something different, when it don't work there's a few giggles then it never gets tried again. So, nope.

    6. You ever hear the words "anti-grappling" being used to describe what you are learning (+2pts)

    Nope.

    7. You're told sparring builds bad habits (+4pts)

    Nope. (tho i learnt a few from the game of tag GKR calls sparring)

    8. You are never shown to cover properly to protect from strikes, but rather were shown a plethora of intricate blocks and parries. (+2pts)

    I'll give this a +1 simply because it's karate, but we do learn how to properly cover ourselves aswell.

    9. Belief in "No-Touch Knockouts" (+3pts)

    Nope.

    10. Belief in the practical use of mystical "chi" energy in every day combat. (+2pts)

    Idea where we train is that chi is just a concept for proper breathing, so nothing "mystical" there, nope.

    11. You spend time learning how to utilize pressure points to control or incapacitate your opponent (+1 pts)

    We do some pressure point stuff now and then, tho the idea is that it usually only works on people who don't know the difference between annoyance and pain. It certainly doesn't work on the sensei. Spose i'd give this a 0.5

    12. Your instructor pronounces Royce Gracie's name with an "R" (+1pts)
    /rant on.
    it IS pronounced with an R. This isn't Brazil! Everyone here pronounces my last name wrong, i don't get uppity because i'm not in the Netherlands, i wouldn't expect them to say it correctly so RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRoyce shouldn't either. Besides, i learnt the hard way from GKR that if you get taught more about language than fighting, i don't care what MA you do, it's ****....... and it's Jesus! not heyseuss! there's no green eggs and fucking ham here!
    /rant off

    13. Testing for rank requires only repeating moves in the air or on mostly compliant partners/uke's. (+2pts)

    Nope.

    14. You spend more classtime watching your instructor demonstrate techniques on compliant dummies, than you do actually trying to apply those techniques live. (+2pts)

    Nope.

    15. For every adult student there is 15 child students (+1pts)

    Nope, but then we don't even HAVE 15 people training.

    16. You're taught kata is to a martial artist as shadowboxing or heavybag work is to a boxer (+1pts)

    Nope. Would kinda negate our heavy bag work if we thought like that.

    17. Grappling being taught but there being no certification of the instructor having formal training or competition experience. (+3pts

    No grappling gets taught but every now and then when we spar we get a bit overzealous and it goes to the ground, got a few guys who do grappling elsewhere so when that happpens they pwn. I learned one thing doing that tho, i need to get my arse in gear and find a place that does grappling.

    18. You've never seen your instructors spar or roll with anyone but compliant uke's (+2pts)

    Nope.

    19. You're told that ANY strike whatever it may be (groin kick, shin kick, eye gouge etc...) will stop any attacker in their tracks. (+2pts)

    Nope.

    20. Everyone's uniform is clean pressed and neat, in good condition and perhaps even has pretty little sew on patches that don't look faded or worn in the least. (+2pts)

    Worn yes. I'd hope they're clean atleast though, stinks bad enough half way thru class. Don't need to be wearing something that smells like old gym socks before you've even started training. as for pressed, i don't even OWN an iron so that's a no for me.

    21. You simply look at the higher ranks, and can plainly see that they are unfit/can't spar/or just plain suck. (+4pts)

    Nope.


    3.5 without my rant, 4.5 with it.
    Dude, you scored a 6 get over it.
  8. Cormoran is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/26/2007 10:08am


     Style: Shotokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    heeeey that's still pretty good! wan't me to do one for go-kan-ryu?
  9. Coach Josh is offline
    Coach Josh's Avatar

    Silent Guardian

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    Lafayette, LA
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    Posted On:
    1/26/2007 10:10am

    Business Class Supporting Member
     Gladiators Academy Lafayette, LA Style: Judo, MMA, White Trash JJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If we use the term "those fuckin ninjas" to describe the plethra of idiots trying to train people in MMA who never competed in anything do we get negative points?
  10. Epicurus is offline

    I'm grindin' 'till I'm tired...

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    Posted On:
    1/26/2007 10:11am


     Style: Judo. Some BJJ/Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think number 19 should potentially be rephrased for clarity, if it means what I think it does;

    Maybe it should be "You've ever been shown a strike and were told that it will stop an attacker in their tracks. It doesn't matter what the strike actually is (eye gouge, shin kick, etc.)

    Right now it reads a bit like "You've been told that any strike will stop an attacker in their tracks, i.e. any strike you happen to use will stop your attacker" (which I hope is not taught anywhere, although it would be pretty hilarious to falisfy)


    P.S:

    Royce's name is pronounced "Hoyce". get over it. You KNOW the correct pronounciation, so say it right - this isn't complicated. I used to call "Boss Rooten" " Bass Ruttin' ", because that's how it sounds out, but lookee loo, it turns out it wasn't said exactly the way it is phonetically spelled! Oh Em Gee!


    There are lots of names like that, and getting them wrong is pardonable. people mispronounce my name all the time. But if you know how to say someone's name right, fucking say it right, don't be a cock.

    Also, I think the point of the question is to gauge whether or not your instructor actually has watched UFC 1 or discussed it, and not just read Royce's name on a Brazilian cereal box. UFC 1 may have been one of the most significant events in martial arts in the 1900's. Actually, I don't think there's a "may have been" about it. So that's why instructors should know the correct pronouciation.

    EDIT:

    Quote Originally Posted by Cormoran
    heeeey that's still pretty good! wan't me to do one for go-kan-ryu?
    Please do! Based on your comments it sounds like a lot of fun.
    Last edited by Epicurus; 1/26/2007 10:17am at .
    "[Fighting for Points] is doubtless very pretty, and invariably draws applause, but preferences should always be given to blows that do some business, to good straight hits that do something toward finishing the fight.
    A man who has carefully trained for brilliant tapping play, will find himself considerably out of it in case he is called upon to do any real work."
    -A.J. Newton, Boxing.
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