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  1. Slipster is offline

    Registered Member

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    May 2006
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    in ur boatz, subbin ur genz
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    Posted On:
    1/28/2007 7:41pm


     Style: BJJ n00b

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I sure can pick some bullshido schools to train in!

    My old TKD school (closer to Tang Soo Do than TKD) = 3
    Tang Soo Do school (Chuck Norris System) = 5
    Han Mu Do school = 17
    Manabi Masho Jujitsu (Ohio) = 19
  2. Cormoran is offline

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    Dec 2005
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    Posted On:
    1/28/2007 7:41pm


     Style: Shotokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Damn i'd love to know what that scarlet mist guy scored.
  3. Nate1481 is offline
    Nate1481's Avatar

    Why did they never try this....

    Join Date
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    York, Yorkshire UK
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    Posted On:
    1/28/2007 9:03pm

    supporting member
     Style: Jujutsu/Mixed

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Certainly stirred up a hornets nest over there, having re-read it would add a couple of words for clarification:
    1. ...FULL BB... (junior bb as people have mentioned are another thing)
    7. ... any sparing will ... would also lower points on this as it is high by comparison, an aside that "points sparing can cause bad habits" is a long way from "but boxing stops you from eye gouging!"
    19. might be wise to include ...always stop... a good right cross can stop someone, if you hit them,

    as I said mainly clarifications to help avoid misunderstandings.
    "This won't hurt me a bit..." - My training partner.:new_astha
  4. roly is offline

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    sydney, australia
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    Posted On:
    1/28/2007 9:35pm


     Style: judo, karate, jap jj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    same school 3 arts,

    judo- 1 point
    krotty- 4 points
    jjj- 7 points but its still fun so i still do it
  5. rexkwon is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/28/2007 10:08pm


     Style: Thai boxing , JJ ,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Do I get the points for pressure point , we use them on a noncompliant subject , for whom the there is not just cause to move up the force scale?
  6. rexkwon is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/28/2007 10:35pm


     Style: Thai boxing , JJ ,TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by gringokahn

    If your school makes you do or sit in deep horse stances = (+8pts)
    Does the deep horse in the bag lift takedown or low side suplex count?
  7. PPlate is offline

    Senior Member

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    Sep 2006
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    Posted On:
    1/29/2007 9:42am


     Style: Muay Thai, Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    1. There are Black Belts under the age of 13 (+3pts)

    Don't wear belts.

    2. You ARE OFFERED to spar/roll medium to hard contact:
    Every Session (+0 pts)
    Once a Week (+1pts)
    Once a Month (+3 pts)
    Never (+5 pts)

    Twice a week. 0.5 points?

    3. You're told MMA isn't like real fighting. This implies that MMA is nothing like a real fight because >insert excuse<. Saying it is the closest thing to a real fight, but not the same thing, does not count. (+1pts)

    No.

    4. The majority of the techniques you learn you can't pull off live in sparring, and you've never seen your instructor nor anyone else use them successfully either. (+2pts)

    Practice very few techniques and use all of them in sparring. So no.

    5. If #4 applied to you, then when questioning your instructor about that issue, you get the response that this is because the moves are too "dangerous" or "deadly" to be used within sparring or rolling. Usually this is followed up by a quick reminder about "how we all want to get to work" the next day, and how we aren't out to hurt each other. (+4 pts)

    N/A

    6. You ever hear the words "anti-grappling" being used to describe what you are learning (+2pts)

    No.

    7. You're told sparring builds bad habits (+4pts)

    No way.

    8. You are never shown to cover properly to protect from strikes, but rather were shown a plethora of intricate blocks and parries. (+2pts)

    No.

    9. Belief in "No-Touch Knockouts" (+3pts)

    No.

    10. Belief in the practical use of mystical "chi" energy in every day combat. (+2pts)

    Never heard of it.

    11. You spend time learning how to utilize pressure points to control or incapacitate your opponent (+1 pts)

    Only if the head, face, ribs, thighs and abs/solar plexus are considered pressure points. So no.

    12. Your instructor pronounces Royce Gracie's name with an "R" (should be with an H, like "Hoyce") (+1pts)

    My instructor doesn't talk about Royce.

    13. Testing for rank requires only repeating moves in the air or on mostly compliant partners/uke's. (+2pts)

    There's no formal rank. Informal rank is determined by competition.

    14. You spend more classtime watching your instructor demonstrate techniques on compliant dummies, than you do actually trying to apply those techniques live. (+2pts)

    No. Unless a dummy holding thai pads for kick and punch demonstration is considered compliant.

    15. For every adult student there is 15 child students (+1pts)

    No.

    16. You're taught kata is to a martial artist as shadowboxing or heavybag work is to a boxer (+1pts)

    What's kata?

    17. Grappling being taught but there being no certification of the instructor having formal training or competition experience. (+3pts)

    No.

    18. You've never seen your instructors spar or roll with anyone but compliant uke's (+2pts)

    Instructor spars with everyone every session. So no.

    19. You're told that ANY strike whatever it may be (groin kick, shin kick, eye gouge etc...) will stop any attacker in their tracks. (+2pts)

    I'm told a knee in the face will stop most people. I'm told a hard elbow to the temple will also stop most people. Does that count?

    20. Everyone's uniform is clean pressed and neat, in good condition and perhaps even has pretty little sew on patches that don't look faded or worn in the least. (+2pts)

    We don't wear uniforms.

    21. You simply look at the higher ranks, and can plainly see that they are unfit/can't spar/or just plain suck. (+4pts)

    The higher ranks tell me they're actually helping me to "condition" my body during sparring. I secretly suspect that' they're lying.
    Last edited by PPlate; 1/29/2007 9:44am at .
  8. Cassius is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/29/2007 10:10am

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Despite my best intentions to ignore this thread, I guess I'll contribute.

    I think the biggest mark of a "Bullshido" school is one that only trains one fighting range (or trains more than one range, but does so poorly) AND discourages from crosstraining at other schools to make up for this lack.
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal
  9. Ryu_Yagami is offline

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    Lowestoft
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    Posted On:
    1/29/2007 10:32am


     Style: KrottyCrappleAnimeLARPing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Does your Instructor claim to be t3h D34dly, despite being 300lbs of pure lard? (+10 points)
  10. Reboot is offline

    Registered Member

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    May 2004
    Location
    Sacramento, CA
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    73

    Posted On:
    1/29/2007 11:15am


     Style: Five Animal Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KempoFist
    I'm sure this has been done a few times before, but I feel it has to be done right, and hopefully eventually stickied after some revisions in newbietown so we can cut down on a lot of unnecessary BS arguing that's been done to death.

    EDIT: Due to the help of some people on this thread, as well as over on BS, I will be editing a few questions to reclarify their intent. Those numbers are: 2, 3, and 12. Thanks to all who pointed those out.

    How to tell if your school is BS or not for the untrained eye.
    This is a list of red flags that should go up when training at or viewing a school. Add up the points with the numbers you've experienced to see where your school falls.

    Keep in mind that some questions may not apply to your school (eg. boxing gym isn't expected to teach grappling) BUT if your school does attempt to teach something they are not focused on, then holding them to these standards applies. Be as honest as possible with yourself, and then take a long hard look at what you're actually spending your time and money on, as opposed to what you could be doing.

    1. There are Black Belts under the age of 13 (+3pts)

    +3

    2. You ARE OFFERED to spar/roll medium to hard contact:
    Every Session (+0 pts)
    Once a Week (+1pts)
    Once a Month (+3 pts)
    Never (+5 pts)

    Never, +5.

    3. You're told MMA isn't like real fighting. This implies that MMA is nothing like a real fight because >insert excuse<. Saying it is the closest thing to a real fight, but not the same thing, does not count. (+1pts)

    4. The majority of the techniques you learn you can't pull off live in sparring, and you've never seen your instructor nor anyone else use them successfully either. (+2pts)

    +2. For those of you who've ever seen Kenpo, those techniques are goddamn impossible.

    5. If #4 applied to you, then when questioning your instructor about that issue, you get the response that this is because the moves are too "dangerous" or "deadly" to be used within sparring or rolling. Usually this is followed up by a quick reminder about "how we all want to get to work" the next day, and how we aren't out to hurt each other. (+4 pts)

    6. You ever hear the words "anti-grappling" being used to describe what you are learning (+2pts)

    7. You're told sparring builds bad habits (+4pts)

    8. You are never shown to cover properly to protect from strikes, but rather were shown a plethora of intricate blocks and parries. (+2pts)

    9. Belief in "No-Touch Knockouts" (+3pts)

    10. Belief in the practical use of mystical "chi" energy in every day combat. (+2pts)

    11. You spend time learning how to utilize pressure points to control or incapacitate your opponent (+1 pts)

    12. Your instructor pronounces Royce Gracie's name with an "R" (should be with an H, like "Hoyce") (+1pts)

    His name begins with an R doesn't it? As far as I can tell, you pronounce an "r" like an "r' in Spanish... I don't know about Portugese and quite frankly, I don't care. +1 & **** you.

    13. Testing for rank requires only repeating moves in the air or on mostly compliant partners/uke's. (+2pts)

    +2

    14. You spend more classtime watching your instructor demonstrate techniques on compliant dummies, than you do actually trying to apply those techniques live. (+2pts)

    15. For every adult student there is 15 child students (+1pts)

    +1

    16. You're taught kata is to a martial artist as shadowboxing or heavybag work is to a boxer (+1pts)

    +1. Though I disagree with the whole "Kata is useless" sentiment.

    17. Grappling being taught but there being no certification of the instructor having formal training or competition experience. (+3pts)

    What if grappling isn't being taught?

    18. You've never seen your instructors spar or roll with anyone but compliant uke's (+2pts)

    19. You're told that ANY strike whatever it may be (groin kick, shin kick, eye gouge etc...) will stop any attacker in their tracks. (+2pts)

    20. Everyone's uniform is clean pressed and neat, in good condition and perhaps even has pretty little sew on patches that don't look faded or worn in the least. (+2pts)

    21. You simply look at the higher ranks, and can plainly see that they are unfit/can't spar/or just plain suck. (+4pts)




    SCORING:
    0-2 Your school is an awesome place to train. Good find!
    3-5 Some fishy stuff, but still sounds pretty good.
    6-10 There's a few red flags here, but perhaps you or they can explain themselves.
    11-15 I'm not liking your explanation
    16+ Your school is undoubtedly a bullshido ridden mess. Get out while you still can! Don't drink the Kool-Aid!


    15 points.... ouch.

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