Stupid things you used to believe about martial arts

**socratic** · Posted On: 5/30/2009 9:58pm

Originally Posted by Big Gorilla

Tàijíquán???????? If you were to ask any Mandarin Chinese person what tàijíquán means, they would say 'tai chi' and think of their granny doing their morning exercise in the park.

My Auntie, for example, does tàijíquán every morning because it is the proper, original way of saying 'tai chi' in Mandarin.

Sounds to me as if someone's learning MMA and passing it off as a centuries old Chinese martial art again. Sometimes I wish I didn't have Chinese origins...

Wow, you've never heard of Chinese martialism prior to the Communist takeover? That's sad, dude. I suggest you look up Chen style taijiquen stat, because I can assure you there are clans of taiji fighters who disagree with you.

**Arcan** · Posted On: 5/31/2009 8:52pm

I used to think the reason my instructor could take my horse-stance reverse punches to his solar plexus without reaction was his phenomenal conditioning, not the complete ineffectiveness of the technique. I also used to think that an effective uppercut started at waist level (although Mike Tyson's Punch-Out shares the blame). Also, I believed if someone attacked me with a knife I could just grab their wrist and step past them causing them to stabs themselves in the gut.

**Big Gorilla** · Posted On: 6/01/2009 1:04pm

Originally Posted by socratic

Wow, you've never heard of Chinese martialism prior to the Communist takeover? That's sad, dude. I suggest you look up Chen style taijiquen stat, because I can assure you there are clans of taiji fighters who disagree with you.

An insult - calling me 'sad?' I must commit suicide immediately. The shame, the shame, I can't stand it. What will my ancestors do? Now a little education for you.

My (Chinese) family and friends of family pre-date Chinese Communism and my mother who was born in the 1930s even owned a little red book. My (Chinese) grandparents and some my family died during the Japanese invasions and the nationalist (Communist) insurgency in Malaysia and in some were Communists. This means my family's knowledge and practice of Tai Chi pre-dates Chinese Communism.

In addition, I am friendly with some of the Tai Pei crowd who did a runner from mainland China and from the Japanese ('the rape of Nanking' wiki will give you an idea of what went down) and they practice pre-Communist tai chi.

The survivors lived through war and none of them recalled Tai Chi being used for anything except gentle exercise pre-Communism.

Does this mean I am 100% right? No, of course not, as 10 family anecdotes do not constitute data. However, this anecdotal evidence is clearly strong enough to colour my personal opinion. In addition, no tai chi photos, drawings, paintings or films exist showing tai chi practitioners fighting each other pre-war that I am aware of.

This means 'fighting' tai chi looks like a recent invention to me, albeit with clear, martial roots. Reviving the roots is fine but 'fighting' tai chi looks new.

**Sri Hanuman** · Posted On: 6/01/2009 1:08pm

Originally Posted by Big Gorilla

An insult - calling me 'sad?' I must commit suicide immediately. The shame, the shame, I can't stand it. What will my ancestors do? Now a little education for you.

My (Chinese) family and friends of family pre-date Chinese Communism and my mother who was born in the 1930s even owned a little red book. My (Chinese) grandparents and some my family died during the Japanese invasions and the nationalist (Communist) insurgency in Malaysia and in some were Communists. This means my family's knowledge and practice of Tai Chi pre-dates Chinese Communism.

In addition, I am friendly with some of the Tai Pei crowd who did a runner from mainland China and from the Japanese ('the rape of Nanking' wiki will give you an idea of what went down) and they practice pre-Communist tai chi.

The survivors lived through war and none of them recalled Tai Chi being used for anything except gentle exercise pre-Communism.

Does this mean I am 100% right? No, of course not, as 10 family anecdotes do not constitute data. However, this anecdotal evidence is clearly strong enough to colour my personal opinion. In addition, no tai chi photos, drawings, paintings or films exist showing tai chi practitioners fighting each other pre-war that I am aware of.

This means 'fighting' tai chi looks like a recent invention to me, albeit with clear, martial roots. Reviving the roots is fine but 'fighting' tai chi looks new.

Mind you, pre-1800's, tai chi really was a mostly unknown family art. Furthermore, it is generally accepted that the tai chi that was taught and publicized outside the Chen village and Yang family, was heavily modified and softened, hence the old people image.

So yep, not surprising that many people only remember the old people in the park bit.

**Big Gorilla** · Posted On: 6/01/2009 7:39pm

Originally Posted by Humanzee

Mind you, pre-1800's, tai chi really was a mostly unknown family art. Furthermore, it is generally accepted that the tai chi that was taught and publicized outside the Chen village and Yang family, was heavily modified and softened, hence the old people image.

So yep, not surprising that many people only remember the old people in the park bit.

I don't know but I'm going to take a stab at this (I may be horribly wrong but bear with me).

Take a look at this link to a silk dating to 206 - 24 years BC: http://www.geocities.com/ycgf/images/styles/qigong2.jpg Some of the positions are Tai Chi as well as Qigong which indicates Qigong is an ancestral relation of Tai Chi. It is all 'soft.' There is Chinese writing / description specific to each of the positions.

If Tai Chi is descended from 2,000+ year old Qigong then Tai Chi could have been reasonably widespread and was always 'soft.'

However, going back to the topic, this is just something I 'believed' since I was a kid but am probably wrong. I am just waiting for the evidence.

**Sri Hanuman** · Posted On: 6/01/2009 9:32pm

Originally Posted by Big Gorilla

I don't know but I'm going to take a stab at this (I may be horribly wrong but bear with me).

Take a look at this link to a silk dating to 206 - 24 years BC: http://www.geocities.com/ycgf/images/styles/qigong2.jpg Some of the positions are Tai Chi as well as Qigong which indicates Qigong is an ancestral relation of Tai Chi. It is all 'soft.' There is Chinese writing / description specific to each of the positions.

If Tai Chi is descended from 2,000+ year old Qigong then Tai Chi could have been reasonably widespread and was always 'soft.'

However, going back to the topic, this is just something I 'believed' since I was a kid but am probably wrong. I am just waiting for the evidence.

There was recently a thread on this in the CMA section. I don't want to derail this thread, but if you want more info along with sources, feel free to pm me, or check out this thread.

Question About Temple Style Taiji Quan - No BS Martial Arts

You can also go to this page for a brief historic outline.
http://geocities.com/bgtaiji/about.html

I have a small library dedicated to history of Taiji, although others on this forum most likely have better info than myself.

Basically, Taijiquan = amalgamation of Shaolin MA and Taoist Qi Gong. A bit more complex than that, but this is the nutshell.

Taijiquan <> older than the 1600s. It only became public in the 1800s when Yang Luchan brought it over to teach in Beijing. He was forced to teach the Imperial guards. Some say he decided to slow soften and the art considerably, which is what we see today.

Hope that helps.

Cheers.

/derail

**pokeroo** · Posted On: 6/07/2009 3:38am

Just thought I'd share some of the things I used to believe. When I was little I thought karate strikes were effective. I also thought hay bailers were too. When I took Ninjutsu I learned wrist locks and armlocks that are effective, however I saw the more "advanced" level students apply these as a counter to a punch and thought this was an effective technique. I used to beleive in Chi energy, chakras, and that one could gain supernatural powers through meditation. I used to think tha karatekas could only throw punches from the chambered position at their waste. I used to beleive in all sorts of b.s. about kung fu including that tai chi is unbeatable if one trains in it properly for over 10 years. I also used to beleive that if your reflexes were fast enough, you could scissor the arm of a karateka when they go to punch you such that it would snap at the elbow.

**pokeroo** · Posted On: 6/07/2009 3:44am

Oh, this isn't me but I think this is funny. Recently I started mauy thai kickboxing. I told my parents who both would not know what muay thai is, and they thought that was cool. Then later I showed my mom my boxing gloves and she said "I thought kickboxing was done only with your feet."

**SonofSpiridonov** · Posted On: 6/07/2009 4:38am

Choson Ninja made me interested in the Martial Arts

I seriously considered suing my current JJJ dojo when i was a noob and found out we sparred full/rolled contact

A "martial artist" can under all circumstances beat anyone at all except like other ten years more experienced "martial artists" (rd. Wing Chun, Ninjutsu, Five Animals, Hapkido etc, etc REAL MARTIAL ARTISTS!!!111).

I taught that the interviews held with UFC fighters pre fight when its always insinuated how much they hate eachother were a 100% true.

I started martial arts late in my teens. I knew basically nothing about them before that. So the whole thing about aliveness, fighting and actually training really came out of left field for me. Luckily this site saved me and im growing more and more devoted to MMA and the Bullshido.net cause every day.
I try and keep an open mind but i have no tolerance for LARP.

**mike321** · Posted On: 6/07/2009 12:00pm

Originally Posted by Arcan

I used to think the reason my instructor could take my horse-stance reverse punches to his solar plexus without reaction was his phenomenal conditioning, not the complete ineffectiveness of the technique. I also used to think that an effective uppercut started at waist level (although Mike Tyson's Punch-Out shares the blame). Also, I believed if someone attacked me with a knife I could just grab their wrist and step past them causing them to stabs themselves in the gut.

Just read this, even an arm strike with no hips to the solar plexus of someone not moving should get some reaction.