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  1. octaviousbp is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/30/2007 1:34am


     Style: Muay Thai

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I interpreted "train how you fight" as applying sport specific training to your workout schedule... but that could have just been my reading.

    I have trained for fights employing various amounts of weight lifting into my routine. I have never done slow static movements as part of it, but rather sports specific exercises as outlined by Ross from Rossboxing.com (as mentioned earlier). I thoroughly enjoyed his Punching for Power routine, and would recommend it highly. It involves mostly explosive movements that replicate, to varying degrees, movements specific to boxing. Unfortunately, one time I tried to follow the program to the letter, and it was too much for me, and I burned out. I "left it in the gym" and couldn't bring it to the ring. The signs were there early, when my ring-time was slow and lacked energy, but I persisted with the workout nonetheless.

    After the loss, I found a balance by selecting certain exercises that worked for me, and still allowed me to up the intensity on the pads and the bag.
  2. Flash Jackson is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/31/2007 7:43pm


     Style: Throwing, and Matwork

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    **** man, train LIKE you fight. What's the basics of training for a sport? Here's an excerpt from my PDF article I'm making? Think people don't train this way? Search Youtube for your favorite professional fighter(especially if it's Snowman) and see for yourself.

    There should be no training "muscles". There should only be "Performance Training", training specificity towards your goal, sport or hobby in question. Ask yourself how much your training looks and feels like your sport. Ask yourself again every time you workout. When you drift too far away, just come back to the basics. You know what they are:

    Doing your sport w/weight, doing your sport under band tension(hooked to whatever angle you wish to strengthen), as fast as possible, slowly, concentrating on form and technique, etc.

    Seperating the movements that occur during your sport into seperate exercises and performing them w/weight, under band tension from different angles, repeatedly, as fast as possible, slowly, concentrating on form and technique, etc.

    Doing basic exercises that mimic everyday actions w/weight, under band tension from different angles, repeatedly, as fast as possible, slowly, concentrating on form and technique, etc.

    Doing prehabilitation(injury prevention) exercises for freak occurances in the sport and aiding in everyday life w/weight, under band tension from different angles, repeatedly, as fast as possible, slowly, concentrating on form and technique, etc.

    Strengthening body reaction muscles that directly aid your sport w/weight, under band tension from different angles, repeatedly, as fast as possible, slowly, concentrating on form and technique, etc.

    And plain old doing your sport, concentrating and really doing it, not going through the motions, digging deep and going as hard as you can. Paying attention and listening to every word from those who know more than you about it, taking lessons, and always asking for help on something that you know not about. Don't stray too far from the basics, and always look at your workout and see if it runs like your sport. Does it go as fast? Are the movements the same, or close? Let's hope you know the difference.
  3. LI GUY 1 is offline
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    GIJoe6186 like boys, mainly his brother

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    Posted On:
    2/01/2007 12:34am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Doing your sport with weight or band tension might be a bad idea in general I thought. Skills in sport are usually fine motor skills and wouldn't adding tension to them being asking for injury? Breaking down all the movements used in sport and adding resistance would create a long list of specific exercises to workouts and reduce efficiency of a workout right?

    I would prefer right now to be able to add other lifts to my workout like keg and sandbag stuff but it is too cold out and no gym has this stuff, plus time is limited.

    I agree heavy lifting would be tapered to get ready for a fight but heavy lifting raises the limit of your absolute strength which is the basis for all other types of strength such as speed strength.

    I think first you need to build muscle, then you can worry about "educating it", through plyos, sport specific drills/exercises, and etc.
  4. Flash Jackson is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/01/2007 1:00am


     Style: Throwing, and Matwork

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Simply put, there is no "phase" to go through to gain enough muscle for your sport. You train for your sport. Yes, punching with dumbells or wrist weights is generally retarded, because you'll develop muscle patterns that hold the weight up and resist the new gravitational pull formed downward and cause an overcorrection when the time comes to punch an opponent without weight.

    The weight I speak of is supplied by bands or a weight vest. Grapple with your own self made grappling dummy with a weight vest on, and it'll simulate how heavy you feel when the going gets tough. Nothing has changed except your perceived bodyweight. Result? Speed and specific strength.
  5. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/01/2007 6:07pm

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     Style: stick,Taiji, mountainbike

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah right. You almost had me until you said tank abott. Are you joking or do you not keep up with stuff. I believe the powerfull and explosive tank abott was taped with a toe hold. He was knoked out when he couldn't take leg strikes and was gassed because his fat ass was out of shape. He got submited by a colar choke in pride not too ling ago. EVERY person he went against was smaller and weeker than he. But technique over rules power. If you disagree then you don't know Jiu jitsu. Look at everyone the gracies have beet. If they didn't prove this point then you can't be convenced. LI GUY1 Says that you don't need cardio and bag work. Are you smoking crack or have you just never trained for a fight. I'm not ever going to dignify that type of ignorance with an answer. Weight training is a waste of time. YOu can do everything you need with body weight. I know plenty of people who can squat 500 lbs but can't do 100 strait body squats. Any you think powerlifting if relative to fighting. Sorry, two different sports. Pick one and focus on it.
  6. Diesel_tke is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/01/2007 6:17pm

    supporting member
     Style: stick,Taiji, mountainbike

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by LI GUY 1

    I think first you need to build muscle, then you can worry about "educating it", through plyos, sport specific drills/exercises, and etc.

    Are you retarded or something. YOu want to build up your muscles and then stop and strain them to do somehting else. Why are you building muscle. So you can look good? What is the point of your training? Mine is to be a better fighter not a bigger fighter. What is wrong with training and mastering the bodu weight you have. You don't need to build you muscles. Just train and train hard. Feed your muscles. If they get bigger from your training then so be it. If they stay lean, get stronger, and you don't have to build them then more power to you. Now if you want to be a bodybuilder/fighter, then worry about building and cutting cycles. Other wise.......why?
  7. GIJoe6186 is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/01/2007 7:31pm

    Business Class Supporting Membersupporting member
     TryKickboxingNow.com - Free Internet Marketing for Kickboxing Programs! Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Diesel, Im pretty sure your just being ignorant now.

    LI GUY 1 never said you dont need bagwork or cardio. He even said they are very very important factors in a fight. Heres what he said:

    "You don't need cardio and bagwork.

    I would say you need cardio, bagwork, weights, everything. A stronger athlete is a better athlete. I'm not saying you are wrong about cardio and stuff, but just like we want to be well rounded fighters we should be well rounded athletes."

    You think you can do everything you do with weights as you can with bodyweight. Thats cool. I didnt know you could simulate lifting 500lbs on your shoulders with only bodyweight. Thats cool though.

    Weightlifting increases strength in ways that your sport training cant. If you think weightlifting is obsolete, your living in the stone age.

    Its not about one over the other, its about using them all.
  8. LI GUY 1 is offline
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    GIJoe6186 like boys, mainly his brother

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    Posted On:
    2/01/2007 7:47pm

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     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Tank Abott was not an example of being strong making you dominat. It was an example of how strength can overcome technique sometimes. He lost a lot but he also won a few. I would say the few matches he won were not due to his technique but his strength.

    Pleae see GIJoe's post also, I never said you don't need cardio and bagwork. If you read the next sentence I said you need all that plus more. You on the other hand say that you don't need weights as resistance training.

    While that is correct (you could use odd objects, kegs, sleds, etc) you should have some type of hard resistance training, in addition to the rest. Raisisng your absolute strength limit will give you the potential to raise your speed strength and other types of strength.

    Please also tell me where I said I want to be a bigger fighter? I do not, I want to be a stronger fighter. Sometimes the two go hand in hand but not always. Just for the hell of it though, a 140 lb fighter would have a hard time with a 190lb fighter who has OK technique.
  9. LI GUY 1 is offline
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    GIJoe6186 like boys, mainly his brother

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    Posted On:
    2/01/2007 7:50pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Next, Powerlifting is not relevant to fighting. Utilizing powerlifting methods or ideas (raise absolute strength) may be. I could tell you the same thing, bodyweight exercises have nothing to do with fighting, gymnastics or fighting, you choose. But then I would sound like a retard wouldn't I. Both styles of training are relevant to fighting, they just train you in different areas.

    Is either one needed? No. Will it help? Yes.
  10. Flash Jackson is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/03/2007 2:45am


     Style: Throwing, and Matwork

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Take a glance at Ross's training. www.rosstraining.com

    Yeah, he never holds a water ball in a fight, but he does in his training. He's training specificity, it helps his clinch. The man always trains specificity. If your a grappler you need to do more odd object lifting and put down the bars and stop focusing on weight. You'll get stronger, trust me, and it'll be specific. Even if you clinch, the odd lifting will help. Drop the bells, pick up the kegs, sandbags, clubbells and kettlebells.
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