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  1. botunga is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    393

    Posted On:
    1/20/2007 11:33pm


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Courage
    Good find Ocelot, and no Browning, I guess I don't have to worry about it.
    Ok, then, I think it is time you answered Sam Brownings several questions regarding the $300 fee. You obviously have some support here based on KenpoFist and Omega's posts, and it would shore up your investigation. How about answering them now???

    So far, what I'm seeing mirrors what has been said, that he appears to have a McDojo that turns out 6 week wonder instructors to teach what would have to be a watered-down "art" that puts more money in Oliver's pocket. And, for a fee, he'll show you how to do what he does best. This is a very fucked up "art" if it can be called that, but it may not be a complete scam.

    For example, I notice he has Jeff Smith as his head instructor, probably to ward off any claims of incompetence. Jeff has been around a long time, won some kickboxing titles, and may have some schools of his own. I don't know. Does anyone have any information on his recent activities?
  2. Omega Supreme is offline

    Administrator

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    West Coast
    Posts
    22,964

    Posted On:
    1/20/2007 11:43pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I haven't heard about Smith in about 8 years. Doesn't matter to me if Oliver is the baddest ass on this planet. It's not what he teaches.
  3. botunga is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    393

    Posted On:
    1/20/2007 11:54pm


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You have a point there. I'm not sure if I can even tell from his site what it is he does teach, besides this: http://www.milehighkarate.com/index.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Oliver
    Grand Master Stephen Oliver
    MBA - CEO - Chairman
    8th Degree Black Belt - Founder
    Internationally recognized as the leading consultant
    & coach to Martial Arts Schools throughout the World..
    This sounds like total bullshit. Internationally recognized by who?

    It appears Oliver is running a home-based business from a P.O. Box, with several schools licensing his "system" under the name Mile High Karate. It does not appear he even has a school anymore. None of this means he was not successful running his school or his current business.
  4. El-Wood is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Kanagawa, Japan
    Posts
    499

    Posted On:
    1/21/2007 6:31am


     Style: Kyokushin

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KempoFist
    **** that. Apparently you miss the point that has been made countless times on this site. It is INCREDIBLY easy to BS people when it comes to Martial Arts. The Eastern mystique, the commando appeal, the countless different ways to lie to people. He IS misrepresenting what he's doing is the point. He's telling people they can defend themselves, while bragging about how he isn't in MA Marketing magazines. I found personally at my old McDojo, that it's way way easier to BS someone than it is to genuinely train them. It's also far easier to up your student count teaching that BS than it is to really train them. You backing him on this, is supporting more misinformation in the MA world, and more fleecing of unwitting students across the nation.
    Well D'uH! It's even easier to BS people when you are charging them lots of money so they think what they are paying for is some valuable eastern secret.

    Now please provide exact quotes and examples of where he is making claims and not fulfilling them and I will be more then happy to say he is full of Bullshido - until then he is running a very expensive McDojo - not Bullshidoing anyone... Now that I think of it we have not even substantiated that he is charging $300 a month (or for that matter what he is charging a month).
    Last edited by Tom Kagan; 5/17/2007 11:08am at . Reason: Removed repeated 'KENPOFIST' taunting because that tangent was trollshidoed.
  5. Courage is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    63

    Posted On:
    1/21/2007 12:24pm


     Style: Tactical, Kempo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Have I seen $300 a month bills? Yeah, I used to pay them and for that you get . . . 2-4 group classes weekly plus a 1 leadership session where they get a chance to brainwash you into the fold.
    Last edited by Courage; 1/21/2007 12:38pm at .
  6. OnceLost is offline
    OnceLost's Avatar

    Here's looking at you, squid.

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    North Florida
    Posts
    2,860

    Posted On:
    1/21/2007 12:42pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Ke?po, MMA ultra-newb

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ahh, it's the 'Leadership class' that puts it over the top.

    A former co-worker of mine went to a local TKD school with a real reasonable price list (I'm using estimates, since I don't remember exact figures)
    1 Basic Contract - $119
    2 Black Belt Club - $49
    3 Instructors' Club - $79
    4 Weapons Class - $29
    5 Demo Team - $39

    And he was paying for himself (1-4) and his wife (1-5) every month...PLUS mandatory seminars, belt tests, certificate fees, et cetera.
    "Reason is a choice. Wishes and whims are not facts, nor are they a means to discovering them. Reason is our only way to grasping reality -- it's our basic tool of survival. We are free to evade the effort of thinking, to reject reason, but we are not free to avoid the penalty of the abyss we refuse to see."
    - Terry Goodkind, "Faith of the Fallen"
  7. Courage is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    63

    Posted On:
    1/21/2007 12:50pm


     Style: Tactical, Kempo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ouch, I saw a marketing vid where Oliver stated that Mile High doesn't charge for tests etc. So people think it's a good deal, and then he gets to screw them on the regular costs.
  8. Askari is offline

    The Bottom Brick

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    2,069

    Posted On:
    1/21/2007 12:54pm


     Style: BJJ, Ju-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Courage
    Have I seen $300 a month bills? Yeah, I used to pay them and for that you get . . . 2-4 group classes weekly plus a 1 leadership session where they get a chance to brainwash you into the fold.
    Hi Courage,

    For how many months did you pay this for, and what was the breakdown?

    Was the content of the classes that which was promised in the contract?

    Do you have a copy of the bill you could post up as a scan?
    "Sifu, I"m niether - I'm a fire dragon so don't **** with me!"
  9. Sam Browning is offline

    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    9,845

    Posted On:
    1/21/2007 12:55pm

    hall of famestaff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Askari
    Hi Courage,

    For how many months did you pay this for, and what was the breakdown?

    Was the content of the classes that which was promised in the contract?

    Do you have a copy of the bill you could post up as a scan?
    I second the motion.
  10. Courage is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    63

    Posted On:
    1/21/2007 1:00pm


     Style: Tactical, Kempo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    They are a big fan of long term contracts. I went with the shortest one available which was 12 months. I can't provide any bill scans. With the exception of claiming self-defense training, they are selling exactly what they say. If you are interested in how a class runs, I could take a sample from the curiculum on the website and break down how it would work out.
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