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  1. jeep4jt is offline

    Featherweight

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
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    Shelby, AL
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    Posted On:
    9/25/2008 2:31am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: TaeKwonDo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by botunga
    For example, I notice he has Jeff Smith as his head instructor, probably to ward off any claims of incompetence. Jeff has been around a long time, won some kickboxing titles, and may have some schools of his own. I don't know. Does anyone have any information on his recent activities?
    Yes, I would be happy to comment. I worked for Jeff Smith back in the early 90's and I watched as he promoted himself from 5th to 7th Dan as "honorary degrees" for what he thought he did for the community. Last i heard he is now a self promoted 9th degree and from his own personal life i find this development quite appalling indeed. His core ciriculum is a combo of lower level ITF forms mixed with Jhoon Rhee forms. In his hay day he had 5 schools then after some seriously VERY bad personal decisions it left him with one school. I would not look to this man on how to run a school or a martial arts career......
    Last edited by jeep4jt; 9/25/2008 11:49am at . Reason: a little lighter choice of words
  2. jeep4jt is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    9/25/2008 2:57am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: TaeKwonDo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by StephenOliver
    Feeling's mutual. My biases flow in the opposite direction. We can agree to disagree.

    Stephen Oliver.
    Well, considering that Jhoon Rhee first came over to the states as a 1st Dan then went back to Korea for his last TOD and came back a 3rd Dan then self trained and self promoted himself to 10th Dan in a system that never upheld that rank seems to be a bit auspicious as best. The same goes for Jeff Smith who i PERSONALLY watched promote himself from 5th Dan to 7Dan in the nearly two years i worked for him for his "community involvement" hollds no validity whatsoever in the true ITF community whatsoever.... I watched my own instructor struggle to get his 6th Dan and the head of two international organizations actually test for 8th Dans so I hold no regard for those who treat rank with such disregard. I myself have studied for over 22 years and obtained my 4th Dan.
  3. Sam Browning is online now

    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    New England
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    Posted On:
    9/25/2008 8:27am

    hall of famestaff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Welcome Jeep!

    Hey, given that Jeff Smith was friends with Joe Lewis and a number of other high ranking martial artists why couldn't he arrange for another legitimate martial artist to promote him?

    If I'm wrong about Lewis please tell me. Incidently I understand Lewis may have promoted himself, though given his fight career, if anyone should be forgiven for doing so, it would be him.

    Note: I have no connection to Lewis.
  4. jeep4jt is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    9/25/2008 11:41am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: TaeKwonDo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel Browning
    Welcome Jeep!

    Hey, given that Jeff Smith was friends with Joe Lewis and a number of other high ranking martial artists why couldn't he arrange for another legitimate martial artist to promote him?

    If I'm wrong about Lewis please tell me. Incidently I understand Lewis may have promoted himself, though given his fight career, if anyone should be forgiven for doing so, it would be him.

    Note: I have no connection to Lewis.
    One would think that to be the case... Have you ever read the history behind Joe Lewis and his training? He trained in Okinawa and earned his 1st dan in less than a year. This is the only record of rank that I know of for Joe Lewis. He then moved onto training with Bruce Lee for a time and then entereed the tournament fighting arena. In his day, his signature move was the spin back kick and that became his bread and butter during his tournament career. I have trained with him during his sparse visits out to Virginia (seminars in Sterling then the Radford Karate College back in the 90s) In all that time i dont ever remember him mentioning his rank.... (although i could be wrong) .

    As far as Jeff Smith and his rank. Well, it goes without saying that as alot of those guys got older their desire to do testings in front of a group of their peers diminished greatly. I really hate to say this but for most of them rank = ego and anyone who knew Jeff Smith and went to enough tournaments will know exactly what I am talking about.
  5. Sam Browning is online now

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    Posted On:
    9/25/2008 12:32pm

    hall of famestaff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeh, I knew that Lewis is alleged to have promoted himself to 10th dan. Now if he was open about doing so, and said "this is for running the Joe Lewis fighting system" then the consumer could make their own decision. I do not know if he is open about this.
  6. jeep4jt is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    9/25/2008 12:48pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: TaeKwonDo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel Browning
    Yeh, I knew that Lewis is alleged to have promoted himself to 10th dan. Now if he was open about doing so, and said "this is for running the Joe Lewis fighting system" then the consumer could make their own decision. I do not know if he is open about this.
    My guess would be ummmm, "no". What gets me is that there are systems out there that actually have curriculum taking one up thru the upper echelon of rank . I believe that most of these "self-promoted" masters just thought they could do it better and branched out on their own. Possibly giving them poetic license, if you will, to elevate rank. What really gets to me are that these McDojo "masters" like Smith and Oliver are making money hand over fist by pumping out a nation of "black belts" who usually quit after 1st degree thinking they have mastered it all.... Over the last 25 years i have seriously watched the arts devolve (with the exception of some really good schools that are still out there) because these so called "masters" and their "business ethics"....
  7. escrima is offline

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1

    Posted On:
    8/30/2009 6:24pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: karate

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    NOTE: If you are considering joining MHK for yourself or kids, please read this string all the way through. (Pages 1 - 43) Do not just read a couple pages and then jump to the end. You will be surprised at the information you will find and you will also read comments made by Stephen Oliver, too.

    After reading the posts, go back to your MHK school and find out how much the monthly fees are. How much is the monthly activity pass? How much is the "retreat" in Breckenridge? How much are the tests inbetween? Monetary difference between "MasterClub" & "Leadership"? How many schools were up and running 5 yrs ago? How many shut down? Why? How long have the instructors been with MHK? What is the instructor turnover - last year? last 6 mths? Why is Oliver taking his name off of the schools? Go, watch & observe the classes.

    It is too late for me BUT not for you. Do yourself a favor and ASK QUESTIONS, talk to other students AND parents. Once you have, use the information you have collected, think it over thoroughly, and make your decision. At this point, you might want to look around for other options. DO NOT SIGN ANY THING UNTIL YOU HAVE LOOKED AROUND. I learned the hard way - You don't have to. Enough said.
  8. StephenOliver is offline

    Registered Member

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    Jan 2007
    Location
    Evergreen, Colorado
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    Posted On:
    9/14/2009 4:36pm


     Style: Amer. TKD, Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    As always entertaining but .......

    The discussions in these forums are as always entertaining (and, seemingly fail to follow your own "don't be an asshole" rule.)

    That having been said.

    To follow professional school operators and to read my on-going blog feel free to visit: www.MartialArtsProfessional.com

    You can join me in on-going discussion of the martial arts school industry at twitter (www.twitter.com/stephencoliver) or facebook (www.facebook.com/stephenoliver) or join the martial arts professional community at: www.MartialArtsProfessionalcommunity.com

    As for issues raised above. If you doubt Jeff Smith's credibility (or, Joe Lewis's for that matter) I'd suggest you search for them at youtube. There's lots of their fights posted. Here's one of many:
    YouTube - World Champion Jeff Smiths Amazing Knockout

    Follow link on www.MartialArtsProfessional.com for Joe Lewis' blog.

    As for Mile High Karate schools. A listing of current schools is always updated at www.MileHighKarate.com as well as current information.

    For legitimate martial arts instructors I'm happy to send you a digital (ebook) copy of one of my books: "Everything I Wish I Knew When I Was 22" upon request: Email: StephenOliver@MileHighKarate.com

    The other book referenced was:
    Dan Kennedy's NO BS Wealth for Entrepreneurs.

    See: www.NOBSBooks.com

    For the record we don't take students and turn them into 6 week Black Belts (more typically 3 1/2 to 5 years.) We do run an INTENSE 12 -15 hour per day training program for staff on occasion to produce Program Directors. Most of our instructors have been training for 10-20 or more years.

    There are many reasons to study martial arts, and many different approaches. The approach among most of the members here in the community are not representative of most long-term, high quality, martial arts school instructors.

    By the way, I'd suggest all school owners to read my most recent blog:
    "Mixed up Martial Arts" at my blog.
  9. shinbushi is offline
    shinbushi's Avatar

    Registered Member

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    Location
    Manhattan Beach, California, United States
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    897

    Posted On:
    9/14/2009 5:25pm


     Style: Muay Thai, Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    For those that cannot find the link to "Mixed up Martial Arts" click HERE
  10. Coach Josh is offline
    Coach Josh's Avatar

    Silent Guardian

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Lafayette, LA
    Posts
    2,183

    Posted On:
    9/15/2009 9:10am

    Business Class Supporting Member
     Gladiators Academy Lafayette, LA Style: Judo, MMA, White Trash JJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Man I wake up today thinking its going to be another boring day and this gem appears on my screen, thanks Steven.

    Quoting John Adams, admirable but taken completely out of context. Yes he wanted his sons and grandsons to have more than he did but he nor any other founding father wanted any American to be a push over. They wanted us to be stronger AND more intelligent than them. The strength of this nation resides in the strength of the populace. If we all became a bunch of arm waving pattern performing clones that did everything the same way we would not be Americans. Our strength lies in our diversity.

    I choose to not to follow. I choose to lead. I choose to walk a path few can walk. I choose to question authority. I choose to test myself. This is the reason we do what we do. It has nothing to do with a lack of discipline or integrity. TMA as well as MMA has people as its representatives. Being that it is people you are going to have a variety of personalities and good and bad people. To lump us all as a bunch of tattooed violent neanderthals is as bad as me saying the TMA crowd is a bunch of cry babies that can't take a punch. Get over it some people want to train in reality not make believe any more.

    In our gym we have 3 guys, myself included, that came from TKD. All three of us are BB and were instructors at schools that were like MHK. We worked and trained and did a lot for our instructors and got very little in return. When we wanted to branch out and do things other then TKD we were chastised and told we were traitors and lacked discipline. We got a long story about how we needed to be loyal to our instructor and the organization. In other words we were told to sit down shut up and do what we say. That worked out great.

    I quit as did the others. I was a manager of a school with over 100 students. The fact that I was working for my instructor and finally making money did not matter. It was the pursuit of learning more and getting better that made me quit TKD. It was the challenge of martial arts not the money.


    "Mixed up Martial Arts"
    Really is this were you want to go? All due respect to Joe Lewis and Jhon Rhee but this is not the 70's. People are looking for reality not make believe. They want to know how things work. They dissect and disseminate everything. We are trying to unlock unlimited potential in the human body every day. Why should we not do the same in our martial arts? MMA is one of the best tests for fighting techniques. The men and women who compete in the arena are disciplined and focused on what they are going to do. They train harder than you can possibly imagine. They have honed themselves into a real martial artist and they are going to test themselves and their training against another trained martial artist.

    We are seeing the emergence of some of the most technical fighters in the likes of Fedor, Anderson Silva, St. Pierre, BJ Penn, Torres, Faber, Couture and Machida. Men who epitomize technical proficiency from their respective martial arts. Do not discount this because its not karate. Oh what two of the guys are BB in karate. Amazing how they can be karate BB and MMA fighters at the same time. I guess by Joe Lewis' definition none of these guys are "real martial artists".

    One note on selling a fight. People as a whole are stupid. These fighters want to make a living doing martial arts at a professional athlete level. So they go and say a few things to hype a fight and make the fans a little more interested. Its no different than a MHK TV commercial telling people to come join a class. Rarely do you see the 2 guys after a match still angry at each other. Even saying that you will still hear the more seasoned fighters talk respectfully about the opponent before a match.

    Why are people going to MMA based gyms? Because in those gyms people are treated like men and women. They are not made to call a kid with a BB sir. They do not have to call their instructor Master or Grandmaster. They do not have to grovel for respect. They earn it by showing up and training. They are treated with all the respect that a human being should have no matter what their station in life. They change both physically and mentally. They become confident and sharp. They become innovators and push the limits of their training. They do all this without having to recite tenets or oaths. They come to this by doing the drills and sparring with their fellow students.

    Webster definition of violence says nothing about loss of self control.

    • Main Entry: vi·o·lence
    • Pronunciation: \ˈvī-lən(t)s, ˈvī-ə-\
    • Function: noun
    • Date: 14th century

    1 a : exertion of physical force so as to injure or abuse (as in warfare effecting illegal entry into a house) b : an instance of violent treatment or procedure
    2 : injury by or as if by distortion, infringement, or profanation : outrage
    3 a : intense, turbulent, or furious and often destructive action or force <the violence of the storm> b : vehement feeling or expression : fervor; also : an instance of such action or feeling c : a clashing or jarring quality : discordance
    4 : undue alteration (as of wording or sense in editing a text)


    By definition all martial arts are violent. Just because you don't hit in training or sparring the intent is to do just that.
    Judo is only gentle for the guy on top.

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