This school sounds like one of the biggest ripoffs I have ever heard of. For 750 a month you could get several privates from a Gracie.
What the #*!@# ? There will always be individuals who will prey on the weak and ignorant. Steve Oliver is living his american dream. He has educated himself on how to get the most out of people ,by selling "key phrases" , Marketing "fear and intimidation",and distancing himself from "tuition collection". He is just one of many, who are attracted to MA by money(greed). With that being said...I believe companies like Educational Funding Company...promote these marketing systems and theeir brand of brainwashing in order to collect more % of MA schools tuitions. Oliver keeps good company. It seems the real problem is the marketing/collection companies promising "a substantial check each month". Does this sound familiar?
1.motivated,dedicated,ona quest to be our best....
2.Develope a network- email,phone #'s
Upgrade the image of MA
Expand your market
3.Never loose sight of a goal w/out taking action
4.Focus on likes, loves,and what you want more of
5.Choose your friends-Love your family
THIS MY FREINDS WILL MAKE YOU A MARTIAL ARTS MILLIONAIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe people need something to believe in at this unstable point in history...And MAYBE it is the secure feeling people get by taking their kids to MHK that makes it worth the $$$...
I don't like the idea that there are MA schools that feed on this notion and wrangle students in withthis senario. To each his own....If you have the $$$ , you're having fun, and getting somekind of self defense, What the#*!@# ?:new_vampv :pottytrai
Originally Posted by StephenOliver
Heh, notice that nowhere in that looooooooong post does he speak about actually training your students. Nowhere at all.
I visited one of Stephen Oliver's dojos a few years ago and was actually pretty impressed at what I saw, to an extent. It was a very well run school and the students (kids) loved it. There was fist pumping music blaring, audience participation, and before we knew it, my wife and I sat through four classes. They were relatively short classes, but all four classes had about 20-25 students. Our jaws dropped at how much money had to be coming through the door. We had no idea just how much money.
The school I attend is traditional - run by the man who founded it. It's a hard knocks school with very high standards. And the proof is definitely in the students. Oliver's black belts are babysitters and his students are children. The music is wonderful for an exercise class, but it's obvious that actually learning tae-kwon do (his style is not karate, despite the name of the school) is not a priority. The kids have a good time - and that's the focus. The school is clean, the instructors are clean, and there's pretty much no correction whatsoever. And compared to playing video games or watching TV, his school looks wonderful for kids.
As an adult, I wouldn't make it two classes. Having come from a good, traditional school - I just wouldn't be able to take any of it seriously.
The problem is - just about every school I visit is just as bad as Mile High Karate - the only difference is that MHK is better organized. I've seen plenty of lousy schools that charge more than I'd pay, but it's all relative. Oliver talks about expensive schools like Georgetown in relation to martial arts schools. I get it, but it's just not accurate. The martial arts you learn in Mile High Karate, as I've seen, doesn't cut it. His school is not the Georgetown of martial arts schools. It's a correspondence course with Georgetown prices. But I won't begrudge a man making a living.
If you were to evaluate MHK as a serious martial arts program, it would fail, but then again, so would most schools. But if you were to evaluate Stephen Oliver as a business man, I'd say he's a genius.
In reading some of Oliver's posts here - it's clear to me that his argument is that he wants to keep students for an extended period of time - to give the student time to get good. Yeah, maybe they will, but without fundamental basics, if they do end up good it will be by accident.
One of the key things that makes martial arts different from a gym is discipline and etiquette. I saw etiquette, but no discipline; and absolutely no demonstration of fighting or self-defense ability in his advanced ranks. None. Oliver also makes the point that not everybody joins martial arts for these reasons. He's right, but a student joining a martial arts school that doesn't want to learn how to fight and learn self-defense should not be encouraged to join a martial arts school. They should join a cardio kickboxing class.
Last edited by Kepler66; 3/05/2008 1:35pm at .
Let me guess. You didn't read the whole thread.
Originally Posted by Kepler66
Can a contract like that even stand up if challenged? Sure, you need to be careful about what you sign, but it seems that most states protect people signing up for recurring financed expenses and I'd think would almost certainly side with the family...particularly for really long, unreasonable contracts.
It's amazing that better, harder, and more practical training can cost so much less and that parents and adults continually get into this stuff.
I'm a hardcore capitalist and I do believe that you should charge the price the market will give you. The _counter_ to that is information: an informed buyer will not overpay. They will value a product or service correctly. I imagine parents just don't understand what, exactly, they are buying so they can't possibly value it well.
But a contract from white belt to black belt? That seems wrong on so many levels. I'd really think that the state could get involved in something like that.
It's 44 pages long!! Who has that kind of time?
Originally Posted by Omega the Merciless
So why bother posting then? What value do you think your post is making to a discussion if you don't read the posts (and the evidence in them)? This isn't a pole in the middle of a park where you can post a sticky note that reads 'hi, I like sandwiches'.
Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.
My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.
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The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris
I don't call building a business around a service that only provides the appearance of high quality as opposed to genuine high quality a genius business model. It would be more of what I describe as a short-term get-rich-quick business model. At the expense of the customers.
Originally Posted by Kepler66
I would agree if it were a short-term deal - but he's been doing this for quite a while and with a very high degree of success - he pretty much has Denver locked up as far as martial arts schools. You say "to the expense of the customer", but none of what he's selling is a secret - you can come in and watch a class every day if you want. I didn't say I would ever go to his school - but I don't see anything wrong with putting a product out there that obviously has some kind of appeal. The bottom line is - there are no morals in business. As a traditionalist, you should put out a quality product, but if you don't like it, go somewhere else.
Again - I'm not defending the schools as great martial arts schools, I'm just saying the man knows what he's doing as far as business goes. I think it's a crying shame that you can't make a successful career out of a traditional dojo with old fashioned rules, but you can't.
Oh - and to "Teh El Macho", I like sandwiches too - what's your point again?
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