Stephen Oliver's Million Dollar McDojo

**Courage** · Posted On: 1/19/2007 12:08am

Did you see the "Karate Homework" section full of pdf files? They have optional assignments like . . . cleaning your room or . . . reading a book, and at the belt promotion (every 2 months) you can get a special reading trophy.

**Askari** · Posted On: 1/19/2007 12:34am

Well Courage, if the worst thing you can say about the guy is that he encourages kids to clean their room.

Well maybe I need to enroll my kids there.

I dont see any no-touch knockouts, I dont see any claims to be teh deadly street fighter to deadly for the UFC or fake championships. And most importantly, I dont see any poo sniffing.

It didnt take much searching to find out where he got his black belt, or when he received his shodan or when and from who he received his higher belt ranks. I'll give you a clue, its Korean Karate.

It looks McDojo-ish-lite, it looks like it would be an easy place to get ranks (just turn up to class, johnny gets his blacke belt), it looks like it belongs in a Capitalist country. And it looks like a businessman who makes a lot of money. Nothing wrong with that as far as I can tell.

I have a fairly low opinion of strip-club Karate in terms of the quality of the fighters, but it doesnt make this one bullshido.

So why does it piss you off so much?

**Sam Browning** · Posted On: 1/19/2007 12:38am

SO did you see him charge people $300 plus dollars a month for martial arts lessons? Did you also see him award instructor ranks after a six week course? If so, how many hours did they train/study over that six week period?

**kobudo** · Posted On: 1/19/2007 1:58am

Originally Posted by Nuck Chorris

God forbid someone makes a kid do their homework or clean their fucking room. Granted, that should be the parents who do so, but if they get hired help in the form of a Karate teacher then by all means, do your worst!!!

Agreed. One of the things that first attracted me to the martial arts was the emphasis on development of character: doing what you need to/should do, especially when you don't feel like it. While it seems a bit odd that a MA instructor should directly incorporate this into his lessons by rewarding specific, unrelated tasks, I see no problem with it.

McDojo Lite

This phrase is SO getting photoshopped onto a Miller Lite can when I get time and feel like it.

**El-Wood** · Posted On: 1/19/2007 6:36am

Originally Posted by kobudo

Agreed. One of the things that first attracted me to the martial arts was the emphasis on development of character: doing what you need to/should do, especially when you don't feel like it. While it seems a bit odd that a MA instructor should directly incorporate this into his lessons by rewarding specific, unrelated tasks, I see no problem with it.

How is character development part of learning to punch/kick/choke/etc. someone so that you can physically impose your will onto them? Never did understand that whole concept...

All that aside - if he is charging $300 a month for his training - good for him. Simple psychology - people are more likely to think they're getting their moneys worth when you sell them something for more then it is worth. Hell, Donald Trump had a building he was having problems selling the condos in - instead of lowering the price he repackaged it and raised the price and sold them as fast as he could get them completed. Why? People wanted to pay for something "elite". While it certainly sucks if you happen to be on the recieving end of the financial reaming and can't afford it, if you have the cash and are going to spend it you more then likely are going to be very happy thinking you got your moneys worth from this "elite" school rather then the one down the street that charges $30 a month for the exact same (or better) training.

Our job isn't to pick on the people who are making a damned good living at selling people what they want. It is to document it so people can make an informed decision and to document when that selling of what people want to believe crosses the line into claiming to be selling them something that you are not.

**botunga** · Posted On: 1/19/2007 8:58am

Originally Posted by Courage

Stephen Oliver and his "Mile High Karate" franchise are clear cut bullshido. I have seen what little there is on Oliver on the forums and thought it was time to really shed some light on this guy.

Here is the question that seems to be unanswered....What has he claimed that is false, or what has he promised that is not true? If he is claiming he made a good living in the arts, and it is true, then where is the bs? Are there any false rank claims that you can document, or other deceptions? If so, great. If not, he's not really what this is all about. If you think his system sucks, and you went elsewhere, then that is just freedom of choice. Did he attempt to restrain you from leaving, or bad mouth you, or anything else that was coercive or manipulative?

**swseibukan** · Posted On: 1/19/2007 1:51pm

Just a noob here but as a Denverite, with 31 years experience in the local MA scene I’m familiar with Mile High Karate and what they offer. Here are a few samples of their work.[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]

Black Belt Testing
http://youtube.com/watch?v=253mCq2C6CM

http://www.milehighkarate.com/press/...uly%202006.pdf

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drm...923127,00.html
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drm...923127,00.html
http://www.ksl.com/?sid=438215&nid=148

(Editors Note, don't ever fucking print like that again)

**datdamnmachine** · Posted On: 1/19/2007 2:06pm

Originally Posted by swseibukan

Just a noob here but as a Denverite, with 31 years experience in the local MA scene I’m familiar with Mile High Karate and what they offer. Here are a few samples of their work.

Black Belt Testing
http://youtube.com/watch?v=253mCq2C6CM

http://www.milehighkarate.com/press/TaeKwonDo%20Times%20July%202006.pdf

Or how about the Anti-air-terror karate class
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_4923127,00.html

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=438215&nid=148

How did you manage to pull off that font? Can YOU even read it?

On a serious note...I checked the first link...I want my time back...in BLOOD!

**hvyhands81** · Posted On: 1/19/2007 2:13pm

Originally Posted by swseibukan

Just a noob here but as a Denverite, with 31 years experience in the local MA scene I’m familiar with Mile High Karate and what they offer. Here are a few samples of their work.

Black Belt Testing
http://youtube.com/watch?v=253mCq2C6CM

http://www.milehighkarate.com/press/TaeKwonDo%20Times%20July%202006.pdf

Or how about the Anti-air-terror karate class
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_4923127,00.html

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=438215&nid=148

Well, the promotion video was bad, but i've seen much worse. The dude had some decent stick work in there, I dont think I could do that, nor would I want to.There is no way that girl is 12, she is TALL for 12yo.

the rest of that stuff just seems like good marketing. thats not the first "flight saftey martial arts class" that i've seen, although I cant speak to the validity of what is taught in the seminar.

and as for promoting a kid with disabilities, come on, are you heartless? If its helping him, then I think its great.