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  1. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/01/2007 1:10pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by StephenOliver
    Feeling's mutual. My biases flow in the opposite direction. We can agree to disagree.

    Stephen Oliver.
    Actually you'd be surprised on the points I agree with you on there Mr. Oliver. Like I said, my main problem stems from me being biased. That bias comes from me and others being burned by people who I percieve to be just like you.
  2. OZZ is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/01/2007 1:12pm

    supporting member
     Style: Short Fist Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintanon
    Not to pick a fight with Omega, but pretty much the ONLY irritating thing this guy does based on the evidence we have is charge $200+ per month for his lessons. I think he is clearly in the realm of Overpriced but decent training. And if the customer service is excellent many people would feel they are getting a good deal. It looks like your only beef is with his marketing practices. I despise intrusive and annoying marketing as much as the next guy, but it doesn't really reflect on his ability to run a martial arts school. I would say our next step should be to send someone in the area to visit one of his schools and write up a review of the training itself so we can see what people are getting for their $200.

    Kintanon
    I agree. The proof is in the pudding.
    Mr. Oliver..do you think charging $200.00 per month is fair?Why?
    " If one wants to have a friend one must also want to wage war for him: and to wage war one must be capable of being an enemy." - Fr. Nietzsche 'On The Friend' Thus Spake Zarathustra
  3. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/01/2007 1:16pm

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     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintanon
    Not to pick a fight with Omega, but pretty much the ONLY irritating thing this guy does based on the evidence we have is charge $200+ per month for his lessons. I think he is clearly in the realm of Overpriced but decent training. And if the customer service is excellent many people would feel they are getting a good deal. It looks like your only beef is with his marketing practices. I despise intrusive and annoying marketing as much as the next guy, but it doesn't really reflect on his ability to run a martial arts school. I would say our next step should be to send someone in the area to visit one of his schools and write up a review of the training itself so we can see what people are getting for their $200.

    Kintanon

    You're not picking a fight with me dude, I agree, he knows how to run a Businesses, why you disagree with him on that point I don't technically disagree with him. Jeez look at all these BJJ schools charging $150 to come twice per week. You want a Mcdojo, try the Gracie Academy in Torrence, I respect the Gracies a lot but they're all about upgrading and charging for what they believe they're worth. All power to them, some schools charge like we're still in 1984. While Minimum wage has doubled most peoples tuition has only risen 20 to 50% on the average. How fair is that to decent schools? So yeah, my big beef is the way he markets himself, rubs me the wrong way but it doesn't mean he's wrong on a lot of his points.
  4. StephenOliver is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/01/2007 1:17pm


     Style: Amer. TKD, Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega the Merciless
    Oh, you must have missed this one dumbass:



    On ,that note, I monitor me, speaking of ignorant, you didn't notice I'm a moderator? You want to promote your Mcdojo's go for it. I told these guys you'd feel open to talk about your ****. You see nothing wrong with it, you compromised your morales a looooong time ago. Reminds me of all those stories you here where Satan is trying to convince people he's not such a bad guy.
    Yeah, I did - thus the "doesn't anyone monitor you comment." Clearly the tone and language of your contributions not to mention the logo with the extended middle finger should give me a clue to your demenor.

    My morals are just fine thank you. I'm not the one who thinks the only sign of Quality Martial Arts is the ability to do as much damage as possible to another human being - that's your perspective, if I understand correctly.

    You're correct that i find nothing wrong with anything we are doing - and, am very pleased (as would just about any legitimate martial artist) with the outcome we achieve for our students.

    If you guys want to have a discussion of proper business practices for Martial Arts schools - go ahead - those of you who have been running schools professionally and making a decent living while turning out excellent students should feel free to share your experiences. Everyone else's opinion is pretty worthless.

    It reminds me of 10 untrained guys with pot bellies sitting at a bar expressing their opinions about what the UFC guys (or, professional boxers, etc) should do to improve. Everyone can be an "Armchair Quarter Back" .... but as the saying goes ... opinions are like... everyone's got one.

    Good luck in your on-going conversations.

    Stephen Oliver.
    Mile High Karate.
    www.MileHighKarate.com
  5. OZZ is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/01/2007 1:20pm

    supporting member
     Style: Short Fist Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by StephenOliver
    Yeah, I did - thus the "doesn't anyone monitor you comment." Clearly the tone and language of your contributions not to mention the logo with the extended middle finger should give me a clue to your demenor.

    My morals are just fine thank you. I'm not the one who thinks the only sign of Quality Martial Arts is the ability to do as much damage as possible to another human being - that's your perspective, if I understand correctly.

    You're correct that i find nothing wrong with anything we are doing - and, am very pleased (as would just about any legitimate martial artist) with the outcome we achieve for our students.

    If you guys want to have a discussion of proper business practices for Martial Arts schools - go ahead - those of you who have been running schools professionally and making a decent living while turning out excellent students should feel free to share your experiences. Everyone else's opinion is pretty worthless.

    It reminds me of 10 untrained guys with pot bellies sitting at a bar expressing their opinions about what the UFC guys (or, professional boxers, etc) should do to improve. Everyone can be an "Armchair Quarter Back" .... but as the saying goes ... opinions are like... everyone's got one.

    Good luck in your on-going conversations.

    Stephen Oliver.
    Mile High Karate.
    www.MileHighKarate.com
    Yeah, well..you just keep churning out your 18 yr old 3rd degree Black Belts and have a merry time of it.:bsflag:
    " If one wants to have a friend one must also want to wage war for him: and to wage war one must be capable of being an enemy." - Fr. Nietzsche 'On The Friend' Thus Spake Zarathustra
  6. Neildo is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/01/2007 1:22pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: FBSD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by StephenOliver
    My morals are just fine thank you. I'm not the one who thinks the only sign of Quality Martial Arts is the ability to do as much damage as possible to another human being - that's your perspective, if I understand correctly.
    Then for $200/month I'd better be learning how to do a hadouken, or fly or something.
    Last edited by Neildo; 2/01/2007 1:25pm at .
  7. Omega Supreme is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/01/2007 1:28pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by StephenOliver
    Yeah, I did - thus the "doesn't anyone monitor you comment." Clearly the tone and language of your contributions not to mention the logo with the extended middle finger should give me a clue to your demenor.
    That is my demeanor, glad you finally brought that up.

    My morals are just fine thank you. I'm not the one who thinks the only sign of Quality Martial Arts is the ability to do as much damage as possible to another human being - that's your perspective, if I understand correctly.
    You're correct that i find nothing wrong with anything we are doing - and, am very pleased (as would just about any legitimate martial artist) with the outcome we achieve for our students.
    As I knew you would.

    If you guys want to have a discussion of proper business practices for Martial Arts schools - go ahead - those of you who have been running schools professionally and making a decent living while turning out excellent students should feel free to share your experiences. Everyone else's opinion is pretty worthless.



    Mr. Oliver realize you shouldn't read anything into my comments. You might've missed the part where I am a MA school owner for 12 years now.
    Last edited by Omega; 2/01/2007 1:32pm at .
  8. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/01/2007 1:30pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by StephenOliver
    Yes, And I'm quite sure that:
    1. She paid a lower tuition at the Community College.
    2. Viewed the Community College as a stepping stone to a better college.
    3. And, was pleased to move up to Georgetown.
    And,
    4. Was willing and apparently able to pay the appropriate tuition.
    Go back and read your assessment and comparison of University vs. Community College, it wasn't positive. That is my point.
  9. botunga is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/01/2007 1:33pm


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by StephenOliver
    Obviously the presumption among many participating in this forum is that "Good School" = Great Streetfighter & "Bullshido" = Anything else. That's a ridiculous way to view Martial Arts Instruction.

    Certainly ANYONE who trains for a reasonable period of time should have quality self defense skills. Unfortunately, It's also true that most great streetfighters, UFC fighters, and others with those athletic skills are not effective teachers. Will 45 year old women & 7 year old girls end up in the running for the UFC - obviously not.

    That doesn't make a high quality school into "bullshido" Just because someone is a nationally known current or former full contact competitor does not give you information about anything other than their own athletic skills. Certainly that's true also of our chief instructor Jeff Smith (retired internationally known contact competitor) although he also happens to also be an excellent teacher & teacher of teachers.

    Stephen Oliver
    http://www.MileHighKarate.com
    StephenOliver@MileHighKarate.com
    Stephen Oliver, your posts are clever, but you (deliberately I believe) are missing the point and are attempting to mislead. While there may be some people on here that are only interested in the UFC, etc that is not what this thread is about. This is about you running a school, and charging apparently some $300 per month for a lame cirriculum. Jeff Smith won some fights, and may also be a decent instructor, but what you haven't said is how long EACH of your instructors must spend in training with Smith before they are allowed to teach. And exactly how many of your students ACTUALLY get regular individual training with Smith?

    It is clear from your web site that your intention is to quickly train cheap instructors to run your school. That DOES make it a rip off. The students and the public, who don't know a good art from a bad one, are the losers.

    I have no respect for you at all. You are not fooling me, or most of the people on this thread.
    Last edited by botunga; 2/01/2007 1:40pm at .
  10. Art is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/01/2007 1:35pm


     Style: TKD, wrestling, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Dear Fellow School Owner,

    I know what your life is like as a school owner. I have been running my own schools since 1975 — and, unlike most — never really had any other job or career other than running a school.

    Every day as a school owner we have to grapple with competing priorities and struggle to remain true to our martial arts roots. All the while you work to create a successful business and a worthwhile career.

    If you haven’t had the success that you want from owning a martial arts school, or, if you’ve done well but are ready to take the next step to join the top 5%, then — just maybe — it’s time for you to take the ultimate opportunity to Master YOUR Martial Arts Business – not just your art.

    What are the steps to REALLY growing your income by running a school? Well, that’s really pretty simple — I’ll teach it to you here — free of charge:



    First:

    Enroll enough students. A single school location needs 20 to 30 new students each and every month to grow and thrive. Are you hitting or exceeding those numbers?

    If not, I guarantee that by the time you leave my bootcamp you will have more than enough tactics and strategies — including step-by-step “plug and play” systems for filling your school each and every month.



    Second:

    You must charge a reasonable tuition rate — up front. Now, I don’t know what you are charging. In my schools, new students pay $159 per month initially.

    What are you charging? If you are not receiving that tuition rate, or are afraid prospective students will balk at that amount of tuition, then you need to learn to create the perception of value for your students — and their parents. This is more that just teaching an exciting INTRO Class. At my bootcamp you will learn to create a high perception of value — value that makes your competition irrelevant in your prospect’s minds and creates the confidence to charge — and receive — what your program is really worth.



    Third:

    You must have an upgrade system to move students up through higher tuition rates. At my schools, we move students to the Master Club at $259 per month within 8 to 16 lessons (that’s 1 to 2 months). Often, this results in a PIF at $7,800.00 or more.
    Personally I haven't received any of this propaganda myself . . . and nor do I want to, but this is complete bullshit. The purpose of school should be first and foremost to produce quality students. No where in this marketing dribble do I see anything that promotes the development of the instruction, the students, curriculum. All I see is "Get the people in the door, empty their wallets, tell them they've done good, give them a hug and a reach around"

    What you offer and what the quality is should be the basis of what you charge. Not charge what you want and then offer what you are able to.

    Here's what I consider to be good buisness practice for a school.
    1) Get students
    2) Teach students
    3) Retain students through good instruction and quality training

    Not get students, get more students, make them pay more . . . bull fucking ****.

    If your only available asset is marketing, then you are in the wrong business, go sell some jeans. **** begets **** and if all you are selling is fuzzy good feelings then that is not a school . . . that's a support group.

    All this talk about education and teaching but no where is it mentioned about developing this, just getting people to hand over money, makes me fucking sick. I'm a teacher and that goes against everything I've been taught/studied/done. Students first . . . everything else second.
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