Stephen Oliver's Million Dollar McDojo

**Sam Browning** · Posted On: 2/01/2007 8:27am

Mr. Oliver, what do you teach in your leadership classes that is worth an extra $100 a month?

Is it martial arts material or is it Tony Robbin's type motivational material? Is there a split, say 60/40?

**spook2021** · Posted On: 2/01/2007 8:35am

Originally Posted by Kintanon

Umm, you are agreeing with me. As I said, he's not doing something that has not been proven, while claiming it has been. Which would be fraud.

Kintanon

Having re-read your post and my post to your post etc. Yes, I am agreeing with you and apologise profusely.

what can I say - It's been a long week!

Peace. :toothy12:

***Omega Supreme*** · Posted On: 2/01/2007 8:47am

"Would you like to have total access to the
"Insider's Secrets" to becoming a

Martial Arts Millionaire?"

Dear Fellow School Owner,

I know what your life is like as a school owner. I have been running my own schools since 1975 — and, unlike most — never really had any other job or career other than running a school.

Every day as a school owner we have to grapple with competing priorities and struggle to remain true to our martial arts roots. All the while you work to create a successful business and a worthwhile career.

If you haven’t had the success that you want from owning a martial arts school, or, if you’ve done well but are ready to take the next step to join the top 5%, then — just maybe — it’s time for you to take the ultimate opportunity to Master YOUR Martial Arts Business – not just your art.

What are the steps to REALLY growing your income by running a school? Well, that’s really pretty simple — I’ll teach it to you here — free of charge:

First:

Enroll enough students. A single school location needs 20 to 30 new students each and every month to grow and thrive. Are you hitting or exceeding those numbers?

If not, I guarantee that by the time you leave my bootcamp you will have more than enough tactics and strategies — including step-by-step “plug and play” systems for filling your school each and every month.

Second:

You must charge a reasonable tuition rate — up front. Now, I don’t know what you are charging. In my schools, new students pay $159 per month initially.

What are you charging? If you are not receiving that tuition rate, or are afraid prospective students will balk at that amount of tuition, then you need to learn to create the perception of value for your students — and their parents. This is more that just teaching an exciting INTRO Class. At my bootcamp you will learn to create a high perception of value — value that makes your competition irrelevant in your prospect’s minds and creates the confidence to charge — and receive — what your program is really worth.

Third:

You must have an upgrade system to move students up through higher tuition rates. At my schools, we move students to the Master Club at $259 per month within 8 to 16 lessons (that’s 1 to 2 months). Often, this results in a PIF at $7,800.00 or more.

My fellow school owners indeed. Here's my major bitch about his program. If a marketing person came up to me, and they have, and said let me market your school, I would listen to him/her. Especially if they used to own their own school. I've heard of Olivers stuff for years. It has always irked me that he touts himself as a "fellow school owner" he sees students as money, that's it. I have never seen anything that is contrary to this. Plus, he may "own" the schools but does he teach anymore? Doubtful, and for good reason when he can market himself to other schools. I've met too many people like Oliver, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Here's my quote and I'm sure Oliver would agree with me:

My fellow school owners. Charge what you're are worth and get paid what you enjoy doing. If you want to open up a school, be smart about it, find out how to run a school with integrity and don't compromise your morales while doing it. Don't think with your own purse, if you are teaching a valuable skill people will pay gladly. In the end though I quote a fellow instructor who has been an inspiration to me as he runs a full contact team and runs 5 successful martial arts studios. No person will be turned away because of money.

Nice Tan btw;

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 2/01/2007 9:03am

Originally Posted by spook2021

Actually I thought the purpose behind this forum was to expose frauds. From what I have read there doesn't appear to be fraud involved.

That is one of the purposes of this website.

It is also supposed to inform people of dishonest business practices and to maximize your training.

It's funny how people feel we should only discuss alleged frauds. You realize we discuss frauds, McDojo's which many people still don't understand, sport fighting, TMAs, and legit schools.

It is getting ridiculous with the whole " I thought this website was.......," BS many of you spout.

If people would review their dojo's and read bullshido, it is a consumer reports for the MA world.

Are you saying that the Magazine Consumer Reports should only review bad products? If so, that is patently ridiculous.

**spook2021** · Posted On: 2/01/2007 9:08am

Good post O Merciless One. I know the guy isn't doing anything illegal but

"You must have an upgrade system to move students up through higher tuition rates. At my schools, we move students to the Master Club at $259 per month within 8 to 16 lessons (that’s 1 to 2 months). Often, this results in a PIF at $7,800.00 or more. "

$100 increase after @1 month that just sucks! What the hell are they teaching at Master Club? Dim McMak?

I wonder how many parents would keep thier kids at Mile High after reading that doozy

Bad Capitalist McDojo :spanky:

**spook2021** · Posted On: 2/01/2007 9:13am

Originally Posted by It is Fake??

That is one of the purposes of this website.

It is also supposed to inform people of dishonest business practices and to maximize your training.

It's funny how people feel we should only discuss alleged frauds. You realize we discuss frauds, McDojo's which many people still don't understand, sport fighting, TMAs, and legit schools.

It is getting ridiculous with the whole " I thought this website was.......," BS many of you spout.

If people would review their dojo's and read bullshido, it is a consumer reports for the MA world.

Are you saying that the Magazine Consumer Reports should only review bad products? If so, that is patently ridiculous.

hmm anger management problems.

Don't lump me in with Oliver It makes me upset. You wouldn't like me upset

*l can see you have removed the reference to ass-talking so... >anger falling... falling... ahh Nirvana <

***Omega Supreme*** · Posted On: 2/01/2007 9:14am

Originally Posted by spook2021

Good post O Merciless One. I know the guy isn't doing anything illegal but

"You must have an upgrade system to move students up through higher tuition rates. At my schools, we move students to the Master Club at $259 per month within 8 to 16 lessons (that’s 1 to 2 months). Often, this results in a PIF at $7,800.00 or more. "

$100 increase after @1 month that just sucks! What the hell are they teaching at Master Club? Dim McMak?

I wonder how many parents would keep thier kids at Mile High after reading that doozy

Bad Capitalist McDojo :spanky:

Okay now that was funny.

**GoldenJonas** · Posted On: 2/01/2007 9:31am

Fake has teh correct on this one. This is NOT a fraud thread or investigation. This is a thread analyzing whether the monthly fees charged by Oliver's "program" are exorbitant or not, i.e., does the success of the Mile High Karate business model rely upon the ignorance of the general American consumer with regard to what qualifies as quality MA instruction.

The Renzo Gracie example was not inteded to be the old cliche of MMA vs. TMA; it was merely one example of the consumer knowing exacltly what he is getting when he goes into a Renzo Gracie school as far as knowing what it is he is paying for. The same example can be said about say Jeff Speakman or Mark Swaim or Waly Jay. Lesson with those instructors will probably cost you BUT the difference is, the consumer will have a better ability to check opn these instructors so that they know what they are paying for.

This is different when a consumer walks into a MHK school and speaks to a 3rd Degree MHK Black Belt with no real verifiable history of competence in the art. In this case, the school is still relying heavily of the "Black Belt mystic" that was prevelant in the middle of the 20th century, i.e., "Did you know a black belt has to register his hands as a deadly weapon". Specifically, most consumers will see three stripes on a BB and assume this guy is a badass. However, as any martial artist who trains knows very well, this is simply NOT true.

So, the question has been asked time and time again by Sam, what makes the high price charged by MHK worth it.

Mr. Oliver - Thank you very much for coming on to our forums to address these concerns. Bullshido is the number one general martial arts forum on the internet so understand that you explanations will help consumers understand the marketing motives behind the general MHK business model and allow them to make an informed decision with regard to where and how to spead their hard earned money. Knowledge truely is power.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 2/01/2007 9:34am

Originally Posted by spook2021

hmm anger management problems.

Don't lump me in with Oliver It makes me upset. You wouldn't like me upset

*l can see you have removed the reference to ass-talking so... >anger falling... falling... ahh Nirvana <

Well, you lumped the entire website together.

Pot calling the kettle................anyway it is Oliver spouting ****. So, that is why it was removed.

Funny how he keeps pushing all of his biases but, we as a group are being unfair.

By the way Oliver my sister went to a Junior College. She graduated with a Masters degree from Georgetown. So, obviously you are still going by the 70's bias of crappy Community Colleges.

Time for an update sir.

**spook2021** · Posted On: 2/01/2007 9:43am

Originally Posted by It is Fake??

Well, you lumped the entire website together.

Pot calling the kettle................anyway it is Oliver spouting ****. So, that is why it was removed.

Funny how he keeps pushing all of his biases but, we as a group are being unfair.

By the way Oliver my sister went to a Junior College. She graduated with a Masters degree from Georgetown. So, obviously you are still going by the 70's bias of crappy Community Colleges.

Time for an update sir.

OK Peace.

Let's get on with the real business.