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  1. Das Moose is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/25/2007 5:31am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PPlate
    When strikes are a concern, if a guy is in my closed guard, I can't just stay there and try to get sweeps and armbars or kimuras with my hands on my chest (leaving my face wide open), or try to triangle him. My first priority is to get one arm around his neck and and overhook around one of his arms, and figure out how to get out of there. Or control his biceps, or get into open guard and get my shins on his biceps. You see how the priority changes radically when strikes are a concern?
    No, not really. In order to attack an opponent in your closed guard, regardless of whether or not striking is allowed, you need to break his posture. This is one of the fundamental things you learn in BJJ about the closed guard - if you have someone in your guard, break his posture and keep him down, if you're in his guard, posture up and don't get broken down. You need to be postured up to deliver effective strikes. If you have his posture broken you can work for armbars, triangles, whatever, in order to finish the fight. Of course you have to be aware of strikes and as soon as he postures up you need to cover your head and sit up to either hip bump him or break his posture down and attack again, but the difference isn't as great as you're making out.

    I cannot try to do an elbow escape while mounted. The guy would probably bash my head in. I'm sure there are more examples.
    Yeah you can. Break his posture by bridging so his hands are on the mat instead of trying to hit you, then do your elbow escape in the room you created by bridging. Naturally you have to do it quickly and if he gets his base back you need to protect your face, but you can still do it.
  2. PPlate is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/25/2007 5:35am


     Style: Muay Thai, Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If I could bridge him, I'd go straight with upa. Why would I want to bother with elbow escape, leaving my head wide open?
  3. Das Moose is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/25/2007 5:49am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    ....because if the guy's mount is halfway decent you're going to need to combine more than one escape to get out?

    Like i said, you upa, he blocks it by putting his hands on the mat to base. If he doesnt put his hands on the mat, unless he's blocking it using his hips (which is difficult to do) then you carry on with your upa.

    IF YOU CAN'T FINISH THE UPA - you use the elbow escape in combation.

    You're going to eat a hell of a lot more shots if you don't get out than if you bridge and elbow escape to get to a better position real quick.
  4. Das Moose is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/25/2007 10:54am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You've got me there. I guess my point was, the game doesn't change as vastly as PPlate was saying. But you're right about the scissor sweep - altho I'd say that with some of those sweeps if you do them quickly/well enough they still work. Take the flower sweep (dunno if you would know it as that, basically you underhook one of his legs to swivel out to the side and sweep him that way) - i saw GSP do that in one of his early fights, if you do it explosively enough you don't give him time to hit you - then again if you dont you end up stuck and get the smackdown put on you.
  5. PPlate is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/25/2007 12:07pm


     Style: Muay Thai, Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Das Moose
    ....because if the guy's mount is halfway decent you're going to need to combine more than one escape to get out?

    Like i said, you upa, he blocks it by putting his hands on the mat to base. If he doesnt put his hands on the mat, unless he's blocking it using his hips (which is difficult to do) then you carry on with your upa.

    IF YOU CAN'T FINISH THE UPA - you use the elbow escape in combation.

    You're going to eat a hell of a lot more shots if you don't get out than if you bridge and elbow escape to get to a better position real quick.
    Dude, how can he post his hand out if you've got upa? If you're going to bridge, it means you already trapped his arm and foot, and unless you've got pencil thin arms, the only way for him to escape is to post his leg out. Even going for elbow escape now will probably mean eating a few in the face.
  6. Das Moose is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/25/2007 12:12pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PPlate
    Dude, how can he post his hand out if you've got upa? If you're going to bridge, it means you already trapped his arm and foot, and unless you've got pencil thin arms, the only way for him to escape is to post his leg out. Even going for elbow escape now will probably mean eating a few in the face.
    Sorry. I should have said bridge instead of upa. Bridge to get his hands on the mat, that can leave space for the elbow escape. If his base is good you still need to combine the two.
  7. Cassius is online now
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    Posted On:
    1/25/2007 7:14pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Edit: After reading through PPlate's posting history in DHS, I'm amending my ultimatum to this:

    One more shitty post from PPlate and he gets a nice 6 month posting vacation from this particular subforum.
    Last edited by Cassius; 1/25/2007 8:03pm at .
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal
  8. AAAhmed46 is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/31/2007 4:54pm


     Style: karate,MMA(between gyms)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    A valid question. I see a gi as a jacket without buttons, and it doesn't resemble a shirt, t-shirt or polo t-shirt, which is what people commonly wear over here.

    I prefer to work on techniques that does not rely on specific types of clothing, but I'm just being anal. I'm sure it could be argued that even t-shirts could be used like gis during a real fight, I don't know.
    As someone who lives in canada, where six months of the year is cold, i think training with a gi is a fairly useful skill.

    When it's -30 or -20 degrees below zero, people tend to wear thick jackets.
    Last edited by AAAhmed46; 1/31/2007 4:58pm at .
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