Thread: Little Carlson Gracie Story
1/18/2007 1:50pm, #1
- Join Date
- Mar 2006
Little Carlson Gracie Story
Here's a story I got from one of my training partners (Brown Belt) when he was training at CARLSONS in Chicago a few years back...
A couple students were practicing a "fancy" sweep and counter from the X-Guard / Z-Guard or something similar (can't remember). Carlson is watching on the sidelines.
The student doing the sweep asks Carlson: "Hey, Professor... how would you get out of this sweep?"
Carlson says: "Punch you in the face"
The student asks: "No, for tournament"
Carlson, perplexed, asks: "For a tournament...? Why you want to practice technique where your opponent can punch you in the face easy?"
Carlson then shows the two students a different sweep from the same position that would work in MMA/ fight as well as a sport tournament.
I like this story because it demonstrates the different "old School" mentality about training that Carlson and some others had; Jiu jitsu is for fighting first and formost. Don't loose track of that and make your jiujitsu a "sport only" style.
1/18/2007 2:26pm, #2
- Join Date
- Aug 2006
- San Carlos
1/18/2007 2:51pm, #3
What's the truthiness value of this story?
1/18/2007 3:06pm, #4
Do you even do jits?
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1/18/2007 4:04pm, #5
- Join Date
- Oct 2005
From the impression I get from my instructor about carlson. A guy who spent a lot of time training with him, I would buy a story like that. My instructor always makes a point to point out no-gi and mma usefulness of most techniques.
1/18/2007 4:21pm, #6
This story immediately made me think of Ryan Hall's upside-down guard.
1/18/2007 9:36pm, #7
Originally Posted by Ikantski
- Join Date
- Nov 2005
- Washington State
- BJJ, Unauthorized Judo
Oh man, I was thinking the same exact thing. I always look at my Jiu-Jitsu with No-Gi/MMA/Self-Defense in mind. A lot of the sport aspect is stuff that would get you beat down on your ass. Don't get me wrong, if you found yourself in a funky position like that and doing one of those fancy moves can get you out of it then sure, but you wouldn't want to willingly put yourself in one of those positions in a situation where someone can rain down strikes on you.
1/18/2007 10:05pm, #8
My BJJ is very basic and most of it carries over to MMA. But BJJ is a very personal thing and more power to Ryan for being able to do the things he can do. MMA and SD has always been a part of Team Lloyd Irvin's BJJ. As a teammate of Ryan's, I know for a fact that he knows the contextual limitations of some of the more advanced hi-tech guard stuff he does. Some of the BJJ sport only stuff will get you ground and pounded in MMA. Two different contexts. Just like standing in an upright Greco stance will get you low singled all day long in a Freestyle context.
I think the Carlson story just reinforces the fear a lot of older generation BJJers have that the more sport only techniques are watering BJJ down. I understand this fear, but I don't believe it to be true. At least not where I train or have visited. This is what a beginner's class if for imo. This also why I like the MAC curriculum. I know most of it just from training with good BJJ people and most of it carries over to SD and MMA.
1/18/2007 10:11pm, #9
So I guess this is where we all bow our heads in deference to a legend and have a solemn moment of prayer to the BJJ gods.
Wow, your story is lame. Am I the only one that gets tired of these self-righteous "FIGHTING ART FIRST" douchebags? First off, what if I choose for BJJ to be sport first? How is that any different from wrestling? Has it occurred to any of them that it takes a minimum of grappling skill on the street to handle ones self? By the time you're good enough to think about playing x-guard regularly, you're PROBABLY ALSO GOOD ENOUGH TO KNOW THAT IT'S NOT THE BEST IDEA TO DO IN A SELF DEFENSE SITUATION.
Allow me to share a story to show the hypocrisy of such people. Caique is a pretty old school black belt. Caique would often talk about self defense for the street, even to the point of making us do the silly generic "self defense" moves at seminars. He would prattle on about how terrible a position half guard is to be in, and why you should never fight from there in tournaments, street, mma, blah blah blah . . . Then, at other seminars, he'd get really excited and spend the whole time teaching x-guard or reverse guard. Oh, and by the way, where is this mythical black belt/brown belt/purple belt that is always hinted at but never named that has such a one dimensional game that he has zero grappling ability geared toward defending himself against a gotard in a bar? I'd like to find him and shake his hand for being one in a billion.
So why bother learning something that you shouldn't use in a self defense situation? Because it's nice to have options, other people will use it on you at grappling tournaments so you should at least be good enough to know how to deal with it, it doesn't violate the rules of alive training, AND BECAUSE IT'S FUN, SO FEEL FREE TO GET OFF YOUR GODDAMNED HIGH HORSE ANY DAY NOW. Oh, and of course there is the comedy value of submitting someone from reverse mount.
Last edited by Cassius; 1/19/2007 12:45am at . Reason: "be" instead of "the""No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal
1/18/2007 10:12pm, #10
God bless you RoninPimp."No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal