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  1. UpaLumpa is offline
    UpaLumpa's Avatar

    Exasperated.

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    Posted On:
    1/23/2007 1:31pm

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     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by oldman34
    I think he (upalumpa) is missing the points that everyone else here has gleaned from this discussion.

    ...

    2. He didnt add these techniques. Through some on the side training, he realized that some of the moves he was learning, were the same as some he saw in TKD. He researched it, and found that pre watered down days of TKD, these things existed in TKD.

    Not at all.
    The points are similar to what I'd say to some judoka trying to earnestly teach striking based off of judo's atemiwaza.

    Just because something is in a system and you learned it in that system doesn't mean you're qualified to teach it.
  2. Art is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/23/2007 1:37pm


     Style: TKD, wrestling, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa
    Not at all.
    The points are similar to what I'd say to some judoka trying to earnestly teach striking based off of judo's atemiwaza.

    Just because something is in a system and you learned it in that system doesn't mean you're qualified to teach it.
    What about within the system it is taught?
  3. MaverickZ is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/23/2007 2:06pm

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     Style: white boy jiujitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa
    Just because something is in a system and you learned it in that system doesn't mean you're qualified to teach it.
    Can you explain this please?
  4. Kintanon is offline
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    Yes, I am smarter than you are.

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    Posted On:
    1/23/2007 3:03pm

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     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DerAuslander108
    Which school in MD?

    Cuz if you'd come to mine, you would have learned throws.
    Universal Martial Arts in White Marsh, Master Herring and Master Stephens were the instructors names at the time I believe. They've since moved to rocksprings or something like that. I learned some good stuff with them, but none of the TKD they did had any throws in it.
    They had some seperate classes for Judo and some kind of kung fu thing that had some takedowns in it. But TKD had no throws.

    Kintanon
  5. UpaLumpa is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/23/2007 3:29pm

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     Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MaverickZ
    Can you explain this please?
    Sure. "Striking" is taught to some degree in judo and the kata of judo. This does not qualify, of itself, a 3rd degree judo black belt to teach striking.
    Simple enough or do you want me to expand more?
  6. frumpleswift is offline

    Vae Victus

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    Posted On:
    1/23/2007 3:36pm


     Style: Hapmudo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by emboesso
    So then how do they teach it in judo if no one is qualified to teach it?
    Poorly.
  7. MaverickZ is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/23/2007 3:49pm

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     Style: white boy jiujitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa
    Sure. "Striking" is taught to some degree in judo and the kata of judo. This does not qualify, of itself, a 3rd degree judo black belt to teach striking.
    Simple enough or do you want me to expand more?
    No no, you've made yourself perfectly clear.
  8. Kintanon is offline
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    Yes, I am smarter than you are.

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    Posted On:
    1/23/2007 4:16pm

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     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Also, just because throws or locks or what have you are/were found in TKD katas at some point in the past, or even trained in some TKD schools does not make them GOOD ones. And from my experience learning BAD grappling/throws/etc... is worse than learning NO grappling/throws/etc...

    Kintanon
  9. HonkyTonkMan is offline
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    Y SO SRIUS?

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    Posted On:
    1/23/2007 4:29pm

    supporting member
     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by UpaLumpa
    Sure. "Striking" is taught to some degree in judo and the kata of judo. This does not qualify, of itself, a 3rd degree judo black belt to teach striking.
    Simple enough or do you want me to expand more?
    I see your point here.

    However, I no longer get the impression he is teaching grappling by itself. It seems that he has "found" (for lack of a better word) that the pre Choi TKD, did have some throws , and locks in it. Whether this is true or not, I dont know. I will have to read the book.

    I say that this may be true because, many people, will tell you that there are no elbows, knees, clinching, or low kicks in TKD. This is contrary to what is taught in some of the patterns.

    Hwa-Rang has a clinch, then knee strike to the head, and a few elbows. It also has a wrist grab, then kick, move in it.

    Toi Gye, has a clinch then knee strike.

    Yul-Gok has a few elbows in it.

    Some of the higher BB patterns have low kicks in them. there are many others, but I am sure you get my point.

    So someone could realistically, teach these things as TKD. They dont need any background in MT to teach a clinch.

    If he noticed in some of the patterns, a similarity to the small amount of grappling/Judo he has learned, and then went to say...a BB in Judo or even BJJ, and they agred with him; could he not then only learn the throws/locks that were in the patterns/forms, and not the entire Judo system?
  10. HonkyTonkMan is offline
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    Y SO SRIUS?

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    Posted On:
    1/23/2007 4:30pm

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     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintanon
    Also, just because throws or locks or what have you are/were found in TKD katas at some point in the past, or even trained in some TKD schools does not make them GOOD ones. And from my experience learning BAD grappling/throws/etc... is worse than learning NO grappling/throws/etc...

    Kintanon

    If he is taking the time to learn them properly, before he teaches them, would that be ok?

    I am not saying that he is. He hasnt clarified that yet. It would make a bit of difference to me.

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