223626 Bullies, 4145 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 1 to 10 of 22
Page 1 of 3 1 23 LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. Tofu is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    26

    Posted On:
    1/14/2007 1:28pm


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Ground and pound - striking on the ground

    Hi guys.

    We all know what ground and pound is and how it is commonly believed to have been developed by wrestlers, such as Coleman, within the context of MMA. In fact, i think ground and pound is a technique (if you could call it that) that was brought into being and flourishes within an MMA context and arguably, within a street fight setting as well but of course that is debatable.

    What i want to express and to genreate discussion on is the idea of ground and pound within MMA, how one can develope this skill theoretically (what are some startegies to employ when having a guy mounted, in his half-guard, in his guard etc) and some very practical drills that one can use to develop this skill.

    Firstly, i think that not all ground and pound is equal, which is fairly obvious. Over the past few years that i have been watching MMA i have noticed that there is a definite gap between the proficiency of some fighter's ground and pound skill and others'. We have to be fair and realize that there are more variables than one here that influence our vision of someone's GnP skill, for example, the skill of the other opponent, whether his bottom game is really slick or he's an explosive wrestler, this will affect how you implement gnp.

    BUt generally, i think we can agree that certain fighers, regardless of their opponents, have extremely effective, powerful and 'smart' GnP. The notables are: Kawajiri, Kid Yamammoto, Ishida, GSP, Fedor (most shining example), Diego Sanchez, Rampage and Gomi. What separates them from other fighters? HOw do they train this skill to develop it so highly?

    Regarding the first question, i will try to come up with some answers.
    1) They strike accurately and efficiently. Gomi aims for the jaw and connects (see Ishida vs Gomi or Gomi vs Jean Silva). Ishida uses a looping hammer fist that, even when in guard is highly effective (see Ishida vs Marcus Aurelio). Fedor seems to have an amazing ability to land huge bombs during transitions, where other fighters would not connect, he connects very accurately (see Fedor vs Herring/Zulu).

    2) Positioning and Angles. Certain fighters seem to exploit angles better than others and use their positioning as the jump off point to strike effectively. Digeo Sanchez will stack you, push his knee forward and drop very efficient and explosive punches/elbows (see Sanchez vs Diaz). Fedor uses different positioning to get past the opponents' guard. At times he is almost in a sprawl like position, puching off his toes to deliver hugely damaging blows (see Fedor vs Nogueira 3 i believe). Gomi will punch your ears from your back with real power and leverage that other fighters can't seem to generate from back mount, except maybe BJ PEnn (see Gomi vs Sakurai/Kawajiri).

    3) Power. Some fighters seem to be able to generate more power than others. Ishida/Kawajiri/GSP are not "power punchers" like Gomi/Crocop/Kid Yamommoto are but they can generate huge power when grounded. Are they hitting harder or simply more accurately?

    So now question #2 comes into play. HOw do these fighters develop these attributes? Do they train GnP as they would their boxing? It is hard to spar GnP because only one person can attack really. And you do not have the same ability to slip and avoid punches that you would when standing, this makes sparring not very viable training wise.

    They must do more than hit a grounded bag. Are there ways to hit a grounded bag that accounts for legs (as if you were in guard), accuracy (hitting the jaw and not the forehead) and positioning (having a life person under you who is moving).

    How do you develop teh deadly GnP?

    Discuss.
  2. Draven is offline
    Draven's Avatar

    ('._.)

    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    1,755

    Posted On:
    1/14/2007 1:34pm


     Style: Mixed Martial Arts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Fedor practises it on bears in the woods.
  3. ojgsxr6 is offline

    Dorkus Malorkus

    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Queens, NY
    Posts
    3,008

    Posted On:
    1/14/2007 1:55pm

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/BJJudo/Crossfit

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've always wondered how people train Ground and pound for MMA. But I'm pretty sure I Choke You, posted some stuff regard striking from side control and from inside guard I think.
  4. Omega Supreme is offline

    Administrator

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    West Coast
    Posts
    22,963

    Posted On:
    1/14/2007 2:00pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Draven
    Fedor practises it on bears in the woods.
    In Russia Ground Pound you.
  5. Omega Supreme is offline

    Administrator

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    West Coast
    Posts
    22,963

    Posted On:
    1/14/2007 2:04pm

    staff
     Style: Chinese Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tofu
    Hi guys.

    We all know what ground and pound is and how it is commonly believed to have been developed by wrestlers, such as Coleman, within the context of MMA. In fact, i think ground and pound is a technique (if you could call it that) that was brought into being and flourishes within an MMA context and arguably, within a street fight setting as well but of course that is debatable.

    What i want to express and to genreate discussion on is the idea of ground and pound within MMA, how one can develope this skill theoretically (what are some startegies to employ when having a guy mounted, in his half-guard, in his guard etc) and some very practical drills that one can use to develop this skill.

    Firstly, i think that not all ground and pound is equal, which is fairly obvious. Over the past few years that i have been watching MMA i have noticed that there is a definite gap between the proficiency of some fighter's ground and pound skill and others'. We have to be fair and realize that there are more variables than one here that influence our vision of someone's GnP skill, for example, the skill of the other opponent, whether his bottom game is really slick or he's an explosive wrestler, this will affect how you implement gnp.

    BUt generally, i think we can agree that certain fighers, regardless of their opponents, have extremely effective, powerful and 'smart' GnP. The notables are: Kawajiri, Kid Yamammoto, Ishida, GSP, Fedor (most shining example), Diego Sanchez, Rampage and Gomi. What separates them from other fighters? HOw do they train this skill to develop it so highly?

    Regarding the first question, i will try to come up with some answers.
    1) They strike accurately and efficiently. Gomi aims for the jaw and connects (see Ishida vs Gomi or Gomi vs Jean Silva). Ishida uses a looping hammer fist that, even when in guard is highly effective (see Ishida vs Marcus Aurelio). Fedor seems to have an amazing ability to land huge bombs during transitions, where other fighters would not connect, he connects very accurately (see Fedor vs Herring/Zulu).

    2) Positioning and Angles. Certain fighters seem to exploit angles better than others and use their positioning as the jump off point to strike effectively. Digeo Sanchez will stack you, push his knee forward and drop very efficient and explosive punches/elbows (see Sanchez vs Diaz). Fedor uses different positioning to get past the opponents' guard. At times he is almost in a sprawl like position, puching off his toes to deliver hugely damaging blows (see Fedor vs Nogueira 3 i believe). Gomi will punch your ears from your back with real power and leverage that other fighters can't seem to generate from back mount, except maybe BJ PEnn (see Gomi vs Sakurai/Kawajiri).

    3) Power. Some fighters seem to be able to generate more power than others. Ishida/Kawajiri/GSP are not "power punchers" like Gomi/Crocop/Kid Yamommoto are but they can generate huge power when grounded. Are they hitting harder or simply more accurately?

    So now question #2 comes into play. HOw do these fighters develop these attributes? Do they train GnP as they would their boxing? It is hard to spar GnP because only one person can attack really. And you do not have the same ability to slip and avoid punches that you would when standing, this makes sparring not very viable training wise.

    They must do more than hit a grounded bag. Are there ways to hit a grounded bag that accounts for legs (as if you were in guard), accuracy (hitting the jaw and not the forehead) and positioning (having a life person under you who is moving).

    How do you develop teh deadly GnP?

    Discuss.

    For the record I think this whole subject is presented in the most assenine way. You present questions, present answers, assume a posture of knowledge and ignorance. Are you trying to come off as some sort of expert? If the answer is no then why give us your theories in such a way? If the answer is yes why not present it in such a way?

    Jeez guys like you give me headaches.
  6. JohnnyCache is offline
    JohnnyCache's Avatar

    All Out of Bubblegum

    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    10,471

    Posted On:
    1/14/2007 2:25pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, we wear gloves. Then, sometimes, if we're going to hit really hard, we also wear headgear.
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  7. CanucKyokushin is offline

    He'll flip ya!

    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    ?????????
    Posts
    2,736

    Posted On:
    1/14/2007 2:31pm

    supporting member
     Style: Not.....working

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tofu
    Hi guys.

    Firstly, i think that not all ground and pound is equal, which is fairly obvious. Over the past few years that i have been watching MMA i have noticed that there is a definite gap between the proficiency of some fighter's ground and pound skill and others'. We have to be fair and realize that there are more variables than one here that influence our vision of someone's GnP skill, for example, the skill of the other opponent, whether his bottom game is really slick or he's an explosive wrestler, this will affect how you implement gnp.
    Speaking as someone who has found himself being caught on the ground.Could this "unequal" ground and pound be due to some fighters having a longer background in grappling than striking?
  8. Goju - Joe is offline
    Goju - Joe's Avatar

    I am a Ninja bitches!! Deal with it

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    7,856

    Posted On:
    1/14/2007 2:34pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Improv comedy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Here's drill we do in CSW

    4 minutes of pad work standing with the guy holding the pads up calling out combo's and moving around

    And then 4 minutes of pad work on the ground.

    So that the guy holding the pads put the striker in his gaurd. And hold the pads on one side, one pad up to the side of his head the other at the body and calls out combo's like:

    Body, body, head and so forth.

    Also Elbows where the pad holder inter lock the pads and hold them up in front of their face and you deliver elbows.

    And post up where the pad holder keeps the guard and you stack the guy and rain down a flurry of shots.

    And then kicks where the sriker get's up and the pad holder holds them around mid thigh/ass level and you kick him.

    Great drill just as tiring holding the pads as punching as you have to actively push against the strikes, especially with the elbows. So you don't get your own elbow smashed into your face, which I learned the hard way.
  9. Goju - Joe is offline
    Goju - Joe's Avatar

    I am a Ninja bitches!! Deal with it

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    7,856

    Posted On:
    1/14/2007 2:42pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Improv comedy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Another good drill is where one guy - the striker get's to wear 16 oz gloves. and the grappler get's to waer his MMA gloves.

    The grappler can slap or slightly strike and has to go for a submission

    The striker gets to hit you hard.

    5 minbute round then switch gloves.

    Here's what happened last time I did this drill.

    get the guy in my gaurd grab one arm trying for a kimura and the F$*cker punches me hard in the temple with his other hand.

    A stuned GoJu-joe "Crap I tap!!"

    Guy punching me "no you don't"

    Me" Yes I do"

    Guy " no keep going I am not hitting you that hard"

    Me to myself "aw ****!!"

    And now I am not trying for a sub but working my gaurd to stop him from hitting me, which I guess is the point.
  10. Epicurus is offline

    I'm grindin' 'till I'm tired...

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,492

    Posted On:
    1/14/2007 6:35pm


     Style: Judo. Some BJJ/Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes, I think this is a valid question. GnP is something that definitely has a technique and skillset to it, but you don't learn GnP in boxing and you don't learn it in sub wrestling (or regular wrestling) either. It's the sort of thing that doesn't appear to have a formal science to it yet (that I know of) and is probably being seriously researched for perhaps the first time now after the advent of MMA.

    And for the record, I don't think the OP was asinine as Omega said - the OP is just trying to prove that there's something worth discussing when they give examples, not providing answers, IMO.
    "[Fighting for Points] is doubtless very pretty, and invariably draws applause, but preferences should always be given to blows that do some business, to good straight hits that do something toward finishing the fight.
    A man who has carefully trained for brilliant tapping play, will find himself considerably out of it in case he is called upon to do any real work."
    -A.J. Newton, Boxing.
Page 1 of 3 1 23 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.