1/14/2007 1:28pm, #1
- Join Date
- Apr 2005
Ground and pound - striking on the ground
We all know what ground and pound is and how it is commonly believed to have been developed by wrestlers, such as Coleman, within the context of MMA. In fact, i think ground and pound is a technique (if you could call it that) that was brought into being and flourishes within an MMA context and arguably, within a street fight setting as well but of course that is debatable.
What i want to express and to genreate discussion on is the idea of ground and pound within MMA, how one can develope this skill theoretically (what are some startegies to employ when having a guy mounted, in his half-guard, in his guard etc) and some very practical drills that one can use to develop this skill.
Firstly, i think that not all ground and pound is equal, which is fairly obvious. Over the past few years that i have been watching MMA i have noticed that there is a definite gap between the proficiency of some fighter's ground and pound skill and others'. We have to be fair and realize that there are more variables than one here that influence our vision of someone's GnP skill, for example, the skill of the other opponent, whether his bottom game is really slick or he's an explosive wrestler, this will affect how you implement gnp.
BUt generally, i think we can agree that certain fighers, regardless of their opponents, have extremely effective, powerful and 'smart' GnP. The notables are: Kawajiri, Kid Yamammoto, Ishida, GSP, Fedor (most shining example), Diego Sanchez, Rampage and Gomi. What separates them from other fighters? HOw do they train this skill to develop it so highly?
Regarding the first question, i will try to come up with some answers.
1) They strike accurately and efficiently. Gomi aims for the jaw and connects (see Ishida vs Gomi or Gomi vs Jean Silva). Ishida uses a looping hammer fist that, even when in guard is highly effective (see Ishida vs Marcus Aurelio). Fedor seems to have an amazing ability to land huge bombs during transitions, where other fighters would not connect, he connects very accurately (see Fedor vs Herring/Zulu).
2) Positioning and Angles. Certain fighters seem to exploit angles better than others and use their positioning as the jump off point to strike effectively. Digeo Sanchez will stack you, push his knee forward and drop very efficient and explosive punches/elbows (see Sanchez vs Diaz). Fedor uses different positioning to get past the opponents' guard. At times he is almost in a sprawl like position, puching off his toes to deliver hugely damaging blows (see Fedor vs Nogueira 3 i believe). Gomi will punch your ears from your back with real power and leverage that other fighters can't seem to generate from back mount, except maybe BJ PEnn (see Gomi vs Sakurai/Kawajiri).
3) Power. Some fighters seem to be able to generate more power than others. Ishida/Kawajiri/GSP are not "power punchers" like Gomi/Crocop/Kid Yamommoto are but they can generate huge power when grounded. Are they hitting harder or simply more accurately?
So now question #2 comes into play. HOw do these fighters develop these attributes? Do they train GnP as they would their boxing? It is hard to spar GnP because only one person can attack really. And you do not have the same ability to slip and avoid punches that you would when standing, this makes sparring not very viable training wise.
They must do more than hit a grounded bag. Are there ways to hit a grounded bag that accounts for legs (as if you were in guard), accuracy (hitting the jaw and not the forehead) and positioning (having a life person under you who is moving).
How do you develop teh deadly GnP?
1/14/2007 1:34pm, #2
Fedor practises it on bears in the woods.
1/14/2007 1:55pm, #3
I've always wondered how people train Ground and pound for MMA. But I'm pretty sure I Choke You, posted some stuff regard striking from side control and from inside guard I think.
1/14/2007 2:00pm, #4Originally Posted by Draven
1/14/2007 2:04pm, #5Originally Posted by Tofu
For the record I think this whole subject is presented in the most assenine way. You present questions, present answers, assume a posture of knowledge and ignorance. Are you trying to come off as some sort of expert? If the answer is no then why give us your theories in such a way? If the answer is yes why not present it in such a way?
Jeez guys like you give me headaches.
1/14/2007 2:25pm, #6
Well, we wear gloves. Then, sometimes, if we're going to hit really hard, we also wear headgear.
1/14/2007 2:31pm, #7Originally Posted by Tofu[img=http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/2364/8026700123940loij9.th.jpg]
"God damn America" --Muammar al-Gaddafi
1/14/2007 2:34pm, #8
- Join Date
- Nov 2005
- Improv comedy
Here's drill we do in CSW
4 minutes of pad work standing with the guy holding the pads up calling out combo's and moving around
And then 4 minutes of pad work on the ground.
So that the guy holding the pads put the striker in his gaurd. And hold the pads on one side, one pad up to the side of his head the other at the body and calls out combo's like:
Body, body, head and so forth.
Also Elbows where the pad holder inter lock the pads and hold them up in front of their face and you deliver elbows.
And post up where the pad holder keeps the guard and you stack the guy and rain down a flurry of shots.
And then kicks where the sriker get's up and the pad holder holds them around mid thigh/ass level and you kick him.
Great drill just as tiring holding the pads as punching as you have to actively push against the strikes, especially with the elbows. So you don't get your own elbow smashed into your face, which I learned the hard way.
1/14/2007 2:42pm, #9
- Join Date
- Nov 2005
- Improv comedy
Another good drill is where one guy - the striker get's to wear 16 oz gloves. and the grappler get's to waer his MMA gloves.
The grappler can slap or slightly strike and has to go for a submission
The striker gets to hit you hard.
5 minbute round then switch gloves.
Here's what happened last time I did this drill.
get the guy in my gaurd grab one arm trying for a kimura and the F$*cker punches me hard in the temple with his other hand.
A stuned GoJu-joe "Crap I tap!!"
Guy punching me "no you don't"
Me" Yes I do"
Guy " no keep going I am not hitting you that hard"
Me to myself "aw ****!!"
And now I am not trying for a sub but working my gaurd to stop him from hitting me, which I guess is the point.
1/14/2007 6:35pm, #10
- Join Date
- Sep 2006
- Ontario, Canada
- Judo. Some BJJ/Kickboxing
Yes, I think this is a valid question. GnP is something that definitely has a technique and skillset to it, but you don't learn GnP in boxing and you don't learn it in sub wrestling (or regular wrestling) either. It's the sort of thing that doesn't appear to have a formal science to it yet (that I know of) and is probably being seriously researched for perhaps the first time now after the advent of MMA.
And for the record, I don't think the OP was asinine as Omega said - the OP is just trying to prove that there's something worth discussing when they give examples, not providing answers, IMO."[Fighting for Points] is doubtless very pretty, and invariably draws applause, but preferences should always be given to blows that do some business, to good straight hits that do something toward finishing the fight.
A man who has carefully trained for brilliant tapping play, will find himself considerably out of it in case he is called upon to do any real work."
-A.J. Newton, Boxing.