Question on steroids.

[PirateJon]

I'm going to be taking an injectable supplement. Spare me any moralising - I'm not competing, I just want to slightly increase my slow progress.

So I have a few bottles of test cypionate, a syringe, and a bandaid. I gather I should do an intra-muscular injection twice a week.

Is there a time of day that's best or should be avoided? A site I should read beyond t-nation, or is t-nation more trustworthy than they seem? Any tips for a first timer?

Lay it on me and don't spare the links.

[Liffguard]

If you really can't be dissuaded then talk to a doctor. Don't take internent strangers' advice when it comes to messing about with steroids.

[Shamash]

[QUOTE=PirateJon]I'm going to be taking an injectable supplement. Spare me any moralising - I'm not competing, I just want to slightly increase my slow progress.
QUOTE]


I'm also a slow gainer thus I'm not going to give you a sermon about the vast evils of steriods. I am curious about your workout background. How many days per week do you work out? Do you work your upper and lower body on differents days or do whole body workouts on the same day? Could you specify what you mean by slow progress. Are you not seeing results period or just having trouble building up one or two body parts?

Not to be insulting, but you may be doing something stupid in your workout which is the main reason you haven't been getting good results. I've seen a lot of novices make similar complaints all the while doing vastly ineffective routines. At my old gym there was one gentlemen who constantly complained of not getting any bicept growth. After watching his routine its obvious why. They guy was doing the classic 3 sets of 10 which isn't bad in itself however the weight he used was ridicuously light. Judging the lack of strain in his facial expression he probably could have done 20-25 reps at that weight before reaching muscular failure. The guy didn't realized his weight needed to be adjusted so that he reached failure around rep 10 and not just pick some ridiculously light weight with which 10 reps was a piece of cake. I'm not implying you are that stupid, but I see a lot of this stuff all the time.

Then there is the issue of how many days you work out. I wouldn't start steriods unless you have been working every muscle group 3 days per week for an extended time without any progress. Obviously if you workout 1 or 2 days per week you shouldn't expect to be to look like the hulk.

Also it might be good to vary your sets and reps. If you normally do 3 sets of ten then up the weight and do 3 sets of 5-8 reps for a few weeks. Sometimes when I can't gain, I use pyramid style sets to blast past my plateau. For example do 4 sets of 3-5 reps, 6-8 reps, 10-12 reps, and 12+ reps.

If your having difficulty gaining strength in one particular muscle group, the order that you do the exercises in may be to blame. Doing tricept exercises before bench press isn't condusive to chest growth since your tricept is likely to give out before your chest gets adequately worked. Similarly, doing bicept exercises before rows isn't a good idea.

You may want to go to a endocryonologist and get your testosterone levels checked. My body went threw a period where it didn't produce nearly enough testosterone and I had to go on Legal steroids for several months.

If after exhausting every other option, then by all means use steriods in moderation. I say this because usually when someone complains about not gaining, there is better solution than shooting up.


Even if you pump yourself full of steriods you still have to work your ass off in the gym.

[Pandinha]

I'm going to be taking an injectable supplement. Spare me any moralising - I'm not competing, I just want to slightly increase my slow progress.

So I have a few bottles of test cypionate, a syringe, and a bandaid. I gather I should do an intra-muscular injection twice a week.

Is there a time of day that's best or should be avoided? A site I should read beyond t-nation, or is t-nation more trustworthy than they seem? Any tips for a first timer?

Lay it on me and don't spare the links.

Please do not do this. Unless you got that bottle from a reliable source, you could literally be shooting vegetable oil into your ass.

As someone who did do this legally, with gear straight from the lab, and who was out for almost a year due to injury, take my advice.

Talk to a Doctor, get your blood tested, see where your levels are before you even think of sticking anything into your system.

[LI GUY 1]

You sound like you don't even know what your doing. I never did steroids and don't know squat about them but but other than what you have, don't you need a plan?

A PCT, doses for your cycle, make sure its real stuff etc.

Why not start off with something oral? A prohormone or the recently banned designer steroid stuff like superdrol. Like I said I never did anything but I would think it natural to start small and work my way up as I gain experience with steroids.

[sdave]

Slow progress? Jeeez Jon, aren't you like 300 lbs?

Test alone can be just danady. HOWEVER, unless you have signifigantly more than A FEW bottles you shouldn't even think about starting. After they're dry, then what? You either need more, or need an assload of other meds to restart your HPTA or you're just really screwed.

You've never come across as uninformed and I have to assume you're screwing with us a bit here but seriously, you need to think about what you're going to do after those bottles are empty. A week after you've taken your last injection is no time to be scrambling for follow-up meds.

Even after relatively short duration/low dosage use, your natural production WILL be supressed. For how long is anyone's guess. Weeks? certainly. Months? Likely. Even longer IS NOT unheard of. Just because some guys recover quickly is no reason to think you'll be one of them.

Spend some time researching hCG, clomiphene and tamoxifen. You should really have an adequate supply BEFORE you even begin. That expense alone should dissuade casual users.

If you think your gains are slow now, imagine how slow they'll be when you have less testosterone in your body than your mom!

You're likely aware that the normal range of test in healthy males is between 300ng/dl and 800ng/dl. That's a pretty wide range, and 300 really is pretty low, and 800 really is relatively high. For comparison, a normal range for women is considered 15ng/dl to 70ng/dl (maybe 20ng/dl to 80ng/dl, depending on your source).

I've routinely seen guys using as little as 200mg of test a week come in with values of 1000ng/dl and make excellent gains.

I have also seen guys who came off with no follow-up treatment with testosterone levels of 10ng/dl. Yes, ONE, ZERO. TEN. It can stay down there for some time, too.

If you don't know what you're doing, and don't know someone who does, you shouldn't 'dabble'. Even if you do know what you're doing, you should always be careful, check your labs frequently and have a good exit strategy.

EDIT

Cypionate has a half-life of 6-8 days, twice a week injections aren't really necessary. Also, I have to assume you're kidding about having *a* syringe. They're disposable, you know...

[PirateJon]

I.. I didn't know you guys cared so MUCH! I'm gonna tear up I swear. Big hugs! You all are the best!

So...
It's 100% pure, prescription from a doc. Supply is theoretically unlimited. Cost me very little. I'm not buying random drugs. Hell, I'd rather be buying random drugs.

I have "low-normal, but still normal" blood serum testosterone. Everything else is fine per bloodwork. edit to add - Yeah, right at ~350

I've been working heavy 2x a week - full body. I lifted bullshido 3x12s in my shitty gym for a loooooong time, then lifted 5x5 for about 8 months after i got a real weight setup and still on it. Workout is the Ripptoe Starting Strength 5x5, with some high rep assistance stuff. And yes, I fucking do barbell curls too. Whatever. I've added less than 40lbs to my squat in that time. Total on the big three is a pathetic 920. I did over train in the past, with two MA's and lifting and working but I'm better now.

yeah, I'm big - 6'4", 320 (f'king holidays), and my lifts aren't moving.


I've seen plans and cycles on the internets. I automatically don't trust anything so what I'm hoping was that some people would post opinions and stuff that I could compare and contrast to what I've already read.

[Pandinha]

COuld have helped if you told us this **** before hand, doofus.

Questions before I give you my experiences:

You have your PCT's squared away?

What changes are you doing to your diet?

What changes are you doing to your workout?

Cyp takes about 2 to 4 weeks till you start seeing gains, are you ready for that?

Why are you taking Cyp, versus Nandrolone? Which would be a better start imho.

Is this Doc supervised?

[PirateJon]

You're likely aware that the normal range of test in healthy males is between 300ng/dl and 800ng/dl. That's a pretty wide range, and 300 really is pretty low, and 800 really is relatively high. For comparison, a normal range for women is considered 15ng/dl to 70ng/dl (maybe 20ng/dl to 80ng/dl, depending on your source).

I've read 300 to 1000. I'm on the very low end of that. I'd like to be on the high end.

I've routinely seen guys using as little as 200mg of test a week come in with values of 1000ng/dl and make excellent gains.

Cool. I've seen cycles where people are doing 400mg a week or more. Much more. With big stacks. Not so much into that.

[sdave]

So...
It's 100% pure, prescription from a doc. Supply is theoretically unlimited.

Good. Do you have a diagnosis of hypogonadatropic hypogonadism or some such? If that's the case, then hCG, clomiphine and tamoxifen may also be covered. Occasionally, you'll get flack for using female fertility drugs and insurance might balk at paying, but there is plenty of precedent for their use in hypogonadal males. A letter from the doc will often convince them to yield.

Have you already spoken with him about post-cycle therapy to restart your HPTA?

Cost me very little.

Co-pay is like $20 for a bottle of Depo-Test from Upjohn, right? Pretty sweet.

Why are you taking Cyp, versus Nandrolone?

If he's working with a Doc and a hypo-hypo diagnosis, nandrolone might not be indicated.

Which would be a better start imho.

Great results and very inexpensive, yes, but more pleasant when accompanied by test (see my post in iCompete forum).