Buffalo BULLshido!!

**3Kings** · Posted On: 1/07/2007 9:47pm

Originally Posted by Renegade

Don;t forget about this guy!

http://buffalobjj.com/

http://www.dss.mil/training/espionage/Marines.htm

Interesting to note that "Renegade" is none other than Tim Hartman himself and he personally threw the smoke screen without ever addressing any of the allegations concerning him. Then Bob (appropriately named for the bobbing he does on Hartman's "stick") continues to divert attention away from the subject like the good underling that he is.

What say ye TJH? How do you justify being promoted by your own students and your support of Dr. Gyi and his questionable ethics?

**Kaith Rustaz** · Posted On: 1/07/2007 9:49pm

Originally Posted by 3Kings

Interesting to note that "Renegade" is none other than Tim Hartman himself and he personally threw the smoke screen without ever addressing any of the allegations concerning him. Then Bob (appropriately named for the bobbing he does on Hartman's "stick") continues to divert attention away from the subject like the good underling that he is.

What say ye TJH? How do you justify being promoted by your own students and your support of Dr. Gyi and his questionable ethics?

I think I answered you questions, and amazingly, managed to do it without insulting you.

Now, here is a simple, easy to answer question for you.

Who
Are
You?

**Doctor X** · Posted On: 1/07/2007 9:51pm

Did I miss the evidences that prove this Renegade is this Tim Hartman?

--J.D.

**Matt Stone** · Posted On: 1/07/2007 9:56pm

I'm just curious why a conviction is the deciding factor in determining a person's merit... I know a lot of people who aren't "guilty" of violating any laws, but who are reprehensible, untrustworthy, and of questionable ethical and moral standards.

If there is a consensus that a given individual has, on numerous occasions, lied about his/her history, background, etc., then why bother with such a person in the first place? Perhaps they possess some technical skill that they are capable of passing on, but why would anyone want to spend time (and money) doing so? If it's a well-known fact, established by the personal, first-hand testimony of many people who have had direct interaction with said individual, I don't see where a trial and conviction are necessary.

But whatever. People pull blinders on for all sorts of reasons...

**Doctor X** · Posted On: 1/07/2007 10:00pm

Originally Posted by Matt Stone

I'm just curious why a conviction is the deciding factor in determining a person's merit...

It really all depends on their convictions.

:toothy6:

Thank you, I am here all week. . . .

--J.D.

**3Kings** · Posted On: 1/07/2007 10:00pm

Originally Posted by Doctor X

Did I miss the evidences that prove this Renegade is this Tim Hartman?

--J.D.

Taken from the VTG Thread

Originally Posted by Renegade

I would like to thank Loki for giving me the opportunity to promote both my school and organization. As is often said there is no such thing as bad PR. I welcome anyone from this forum to contact me if you have any question about my credentials. Depending were you live we might be able to meet face to face. I teach anywhere from 25 – 35 seminars a year throughout North America and Europe. If you check the WMAA website at www.wmarnis.com you can see if I’ll be in your area. I leave next Thursday (Jan 27th) for a tour in Sweden and return on February 7th. Feel free to contact me at my school (Horizon Martial Arts) before or after my trip. My school number is 716-675-0899, and before anyone asks, there in NO “Swedish Bikini Team”. I was crushed to find out it was an urban legend!

Respectfully yours,
Datu Tim Hartman
World Modern Arnis Alliance

Who I am has nothing to do with whether TJH is a fraud or not and KR has already admitted that he wouldn't believe me even if I did reveal my ID. I'm content to allow the facts speak for themselves. Anybody with a whole brain can decide for themselves. Keep rounding up more of your flunkies to defend your BS Hartman.

**3Kings** · Posted On: 1/07/2007 10:02pm

Originally Posted by Matt Stone

I'm just curious why a conviction is the deciding factor in determining a person's merit... I know a lot of people who aren't "guilty" of violating any laws, but who are reprehensible, untrustworthy, and of questionable ethical and moral standards.

If there is a consensus that a given individual has, on numerous occasions, lied about his/her history, background, etc., then why bother with such a person in the first place? Perhaps they possess some technical skill that they are capable of passing on, but why would anyone want to spend time (and money) doing so? If it's a well-known fact, established by the personal, first-hand testimony of many people who have had direct interaction with said individual, I don't see where a trial and conviction are necessary.

But whatever. People pull blinders on for all sorts of reasons...

FINALLY!! A voice of reason, or perhaps just someone who ISN'T affiliated with Hartman.

**Matt Stone** · Posted On: 1/07/2007 10:07pm

Originally Posted by 3Kings

Who I am has nothing to do with whether TJH is a fraud or not

Perhaps, but it does go a long way toward establishing whether you're just here pursuing a personal vendetta/agenda.

and KR has already admitted that he wouldn't believe me even if I did reveal my ID.

Though I've been at odds with KR in the past over any number of issues (hey, Kaith, how's things?), I don't blame him for telling you that he's not going to waste daylight on you or your issues unless you man up and ID yourself for the audience at large... Bottom line, your complaints don't matter if you don't show where you're coming from in forming them. Jaded ex-student? Competitor in the same business arena?

I'm content to allow the facts speak for themselves. Anybody with a whole brain can decide for themselves. Keep rounding up more of your flunkies to defend your BS Hartman.

What facts? There's a FAQ answering and rebutting everyone's complaints that he "self-promoted." I don't agree with the process they followed, but it's relatively common knowledge that anything above 5th/6th degree is honorary only, anyway. Those grades serve to identify the leadership of a school, style, association, etc., and are really not indicative in any way of skill. So if that's all you're hung up on, Remy promoted him to 6th personally. That'd imply he's legit enough...

Enjoy.

**Matt Stone** · Posted On: 1/07/2007 10:09pm

Originally Posted by 3Kings

FINALLY!! A voice of reason, or perhaps just someone who ISN'T affiliated with Hartman.

Actually, I was informally instructed by one of Hartman's students while living in Japan. Never joined his (TH's) association (which may be why my emails to TH have always gone unanswered), so I'm not officially affiliated with him, but I do trace my Modern Arnis lineage through him, for sure.

**Doctor X** · Posted On: 1/07/2007 10:10pm

Originally Posted by 3Kings

Taken from the VTG Thread

Ah. Thanks.

Yet another who does not realize that in Asian culture it is uncouth to refer to yourself with your title--made up or not. Must confess whenever I see someone sign as a "shihan" or worse, "sensei" or, even worse, "soke," no . . . wait, let us not forget "Supreme Grand Master," my Bullshido Detectors scream.

--J.D.