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  1. #1

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    Learning the arts of multiple fighting systems

    I should begin with the quote that inspired this thread, found at http://tkdtutor.com/13Sparring/Other...therArts01.htm:

    There are 3 methods to defend from an attack and all three are effective if they are individually used as they were originally conceived. The methods are :
    • Force meets force arts, such as karate, boxing, Taekwondo and other striking arts.
    • Grappling arts such as Judo, wrestling, etc.
    • Avoidance arts such as Aikido, some forms of Jujitsu, etc.
    The three arts are mutually exclusive. For example, it is difficult to grapple and strike at the same time, difficult to avoid force and grapple at the same time, and it is difficult to strike and avoid force at the same time.
    A true martial artist is a person who studies one of these three ideas exclusively. When an art is studied in this way, the subconscious quickly learns how to respond to almost every conceivable attack. However, if we mix the arts, strange things happen. For example, if the subconscious has been taught to block with left hand and strike with the right when dealing with a right hand punch, the response will be instant. However, if we also have studied avoiding the punch, our subconscious becomes confused and throws the decision back to the conscious mind. The difference is that the subconscious makes a decision in 1/25 of a second, whereas the conscious mind makes a decision in of a second, approximately 18 times faster. For this reason, it is best to pick a martial art that best suits you and specialize in it without mixing it with other arts.
    All I'm wondering, fundamentally, is whether this is true? Does this make the idea of learning multiple arts to the level of mastery a void idea?

    I do shotokan karate, and am beginning to achieve some proficiency in it, but I worry that my techniques are too limited and was considering finding another art (probably but not necessarily a grappling or avoidance art as described above) to complement my fighting style. However, having read this I am apprehensive and wonder if I will do more harm than good. Please let me know what you think.

    And yeah I looked around and I had no idea where to put the thread, so I put it here. Sorry about that.

    Thanks for your help!

    -Shadowhand9

  2. #2
    alex's Avatar
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    All I'm wondering, fundamentally, is whether this is true?
    no, its bullshit.

  3. #3
    leere_form's Avatar
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    yes, like alex said, this is bullshit.

    it is someone's lame attempt to turn martial arts into a pokemon-esque game of paper-rock-scissors or something. they clearly have more theory than practice.

    the so-called "three arts" (which are bullshit categories anyway) are not mutually exclusive. on the contrary, striking and grappling go excellently together.

    that's where the term "ground and pound" comes from: MMA fighters will use their grappling skills to throw their opponent to the ground, get on top of them in a superior position, and then finish them off with strikes. it's bloody, not nice, and highly effective.

    oh, and notice there are no forums here for "force" or "avoidance" arts.

    there are forums for striking arts, grappling arts, MMA, etc. this should tell you something.

  4. #4
    I'm grindin' 'till I'm tired...

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    This is definitely bullshit. If you learn several arts, with a bit of practice you'll react to attacks using whatever is most expiditious for that situation, instinctively. The delay this guy is talking about is the sort of thing you worry about for like the first three weeks of a new martial art.

    Definitely diversify. This writer is trying to impose their fantasy onto reality.
    "[Fighting for Points] is doubtless very pretty, and invariably draws applause, but preferences should always be given to blows that do some business, to good straight hits that do something toward finishing the fight.
    A man who has carefully trained for brilliant tapping play, will find himself considerably out of it in case he is called upon to do any real work."
    -A.J. Newton, Boxing.

  5. #5
    leere_form's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Epicurus
    This writer is trying to impose their fantasy onto reality.
    that pretty much sums it up.

  6. #6
    bob's Avatar
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    From the same article...

    Some limitations to grappling arts are:
    • Multiple Attackers. Since ground fighting requires maximal body entanglement, it is virtually impossible to fight multiple attackers. When defending against multiple attackers, your only hope is powerful punches and kicks against deadly targets.
    • Edged Weapons. When applying a grappling lock it is extremely difficult to defend against knives and other edged weapons.
    • Onlooker Intervention. People are champions of the underdog. Nobody likes to see a person mounted and pummeled with vicious blows or being held in pain in a lock, so someone may decide to come to the aid of the person in pain. If you are locked up on the ground with your attacker and spectators decide to intervene, you are in big trouble.
    • Psychoactive Drugs. If your adversary is high on psychoactive drugs he will have freakish strength and often be immune to pain. Do you want to be on the ground with a large man on such powerful drugs?
    • Environment. When ground fighting, the environment and immediate surrounding can harm you (heavy traffic, a cliff, a street curb, etc.).
    • Weapon Retention. If you are a law enforcement officer or security guard, there is a very strong possibility that your attacker may pull your holstered sidearm and shoot you while you are ground fighting with him.
    • Biting and Gouging. Many submission techniques can be negated with biting, gouging, and various other maiming techniques.
    nuff said

  7. #7
    Anna Kovacs's Avatar
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    I always find it amusing when people criticize grappling because of edged weapons. Basically your best hope is grappling because trying to strike someone with a reach and weapon advantage is a losing game unless you've got some serious KO capability.

  8. #8
    bob's Avatar
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    Do you want to be on the ground with a large man on such powerful drugs?


    This made me giggle.

  9. #9

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    Quote:

    When ground fighting, the environment and immediate surrounding can harm you (heavy traffic, a cliff, a street curb, etc.).


    I think those would be issues for standup fighting as well. :car32:

  10. #10

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    Dammit, I'll have to stop doing my BJJ on cliff-faces and interstates now.
    I think only idiots assume that someone who trains for the ring can't make the switch to the street as soon as things change. - dweidman

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