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  1. Rubber Tanto is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/03/2007 5:23pm


     Style: Bujutsu / Muay Thai / MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by pl4zM4
    Jumping up the ceiling and ninja staring you in freaking sweet!

    Nah man, don't be stupid...I couldn't show any of my totally sweet moves, because there was no place to plug in my amp...so the guitar stayed in the car....
  2. Plasma is online now
    Plasma's Avatar

    Bullshido Admin

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    Posted On:
    1/03/2007 5:25pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: 柔術

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rubber Tanto
    Nah man, don't be stupid...I couldn't show any of my totally sweet moves, because there was no place to plug in my amp...so the guitar stayed in the car....
    Were they too d34dly f0r t3h D0j0?
  3. Bluto Blutarsky is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/03/2007 5:25pm


     Style: Mostly drinking. E-chaun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ming Loyalist
    i wouldn't underestimate the potential for trouble, and as a frequent throwdown organizer and participant, it has always been in the back of my mind that this may get me sued.

    and remember, everyone, waivers don't hold up in court usually, slick lawyers can always find ways around them (i still make people sign them anyway.)
    Even given that the waiver is 100% legit, and you have a video confession of the guy beforre and after the match that it was consentual and there were no issues, and whatever else you can think of, the simple truth is that the way personal injury attorneys work on contingency, that if they find someone to believe thier story and take the case, the fact is that you as the defendant would have to spend money to hire a lawyer in the first place just to put in an answer, you have already lost.

    Judges (at least in NY) don't like to award legal fees, and the simple truth is that the client could simply "forget" that he signed a waiver. It might be a case that is easily dismissed, but when you have to pay $10,000 - $15,000 in legal fees just to draw up an answer or motion to dismiss then ask yourself if you really won.

    This is definately something that should have people worried. And truth be told the waivers at the fighthouse last I remembered only cover the fighthouse.

    I would maybe suggest that we add onto the waivers the level of contact that a person is willing to undergo. I don't want to "litigate" a throwdown especially since it can scare people away. Maybe at the next one we can talk about what more to do on this to help a bit more with your concerns.
    Last edited by Bluto Blutarsky; 1/03/2007 5:30pm at . Reason: add
  4. Rubber Tanto is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/04/2007 3:06am


     Style: Bujutsu / Muay Thai / MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by pl4zM4
    Were they too d34dly f0r t3h D0j0?
    no one can handle my deadly dojo mojo
  5. kobudo is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/04/2007 3:37am


     Style: Mixed grappling & fencing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluto Blutarsky
    Even given that the waiver is 100% legit, and you have a video confession of the guy beforre and after the match that it was consentual and there were no issues, and whatever else you can think of, the simple truth is that the way personal injury attorneys work on contingency, that if they find someone to believe thier story and take the case, the fact is that you as the defendant would have to spend money to hire a lawyer in the first place just to put in an answer, you have already lost.
    You know, when you get right down to it, you're almost never going to find a personal injury attorney who will look at a client and say, "you know, it would be stupid of you to sue." I've only heard of it happening once, and that was related to a slip-and-fall accident where the guy slipped on a spill that he caused moments before -- hence, there could be no negligence on the property owner's part.

    I would like to think that the type of people who attend a throwdown would be of better character than that, but there's always one jerk who stands ready to ruin the fun for all.

    Maybe there is a type of low-cost insurance that could protect organizers against this stuff, and the participants can pay a small participation fee to cover it. Just an idea... Another idea would be to set up a small LLC (limited liability corporation) that protects individuals from being sued. Now, I'm not a lawyer, but I know enough business law (and more media law) than I'll ever use outside of BSing on a forum.
  6. liokault is offline

    Moron

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    Posted On:
    1/04/2007 3:48am


     Style: Tai Chi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    At the Oxford Throwdown in the UK we didn't use waivers. None of us were lawyers to my knowledge. We just assumed it would be ok if nobody was a dick, and if somebody was a dick they'd be in the minority and there'd be enough capable people watching to break things up. Just like you don't need to sign a waiver to play rugby.
    The main reason that I didn’t think about a wavier for the Oxford throwdown was because the only real threat comes from someone being assaulted against their will (as opposed to willingly?), which you cant cover by wavier.
    For example you cant ask people to sign a waiver before going into a ruff night club that says “I understand that drunk people will try to punch me without warning and I promise not to press charges against them” just so that you can cut down on the number of bouncers hired.

    Also, as I understand UK law (which is not very deeply), if someone at a TD sues due to an injury, the owner/operator of the facility is the person that the law would look to, not the event organizer. If the owner/operator of the facility has required you to be insured (as they should), they can pass any lawsuit onto your insurance company.

    We also covered ourselves by pointing out in the Oxford TD thread that people were being invited to a Tai Chi class and that anything else that went on was not our responsibility.
  7. markcos262 is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/04/2007 8:37am


     Style: bujinkan

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Samuel Browning
    Your friend is a lawyer I presume?
    Hence the dunno if that's true.
  8. Sam Browning is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/04/2007 2:01pm

    hall of famestaff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The short answer is that there is no general requirement that all documents such as contracts need a witness to co-sign them in order for them to be admissible in a court proceeding. The relevant questions is whether a document is properly introduced through a witness (usually a signer or a keeper of the record) using the jurisdiction's rules of evidence.
  9. Iceman140 is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/09/2007 12:14am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Cullion
    At the Oxford Throwdown in the UK we didn't use waivers. None of us were lawyers to my knowledge. We just assumed it would be ok if nobody was a dick, and if somebody was a dick they'd be in the minority and there'd be enough capable people watching to break things up. Just like you don't need to sign a waiver to play rugby.
    Rugby.....MA with a ball......ouch.

    While were at it.....anybody invite DrL to the TD in CA this Feb.?
    Last edited by Iceman140; 1/09/2007 12:17am at .
  10. saturnjunkie is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/09/2007 5:03pm


     Style: FMA & judo-ultra noob

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Maybe someone can get a free answer out of this guy.
    http://www.karatelaw.com/contact.html

    Warning: I'm not a lawyer. I have, however, owned a business (a small motorsports business, LLC)

    In reality I can see two separate potential issues here. First would be the issue of liability. There is no way I can see to fully cover against this kind of thing except through insurance. Every extra step helps (kind of like how theft deterrents won't stop every thief but enough of them will convince them to shop somewhere else) so I'd definitely do whatever I could if I were running one to cover my butt.

    The second issue, one perhaps more likely, would be that of a libel charge. That being malicious statements in written form on this board. I can see a loser of a TD challenge doing something like this if they were an exceptionally poor loser. Hopefully phrost has spoken with a lawyer about this kind of thing to help cover his own bases. Personally I'd definitely create a LLC (costs very little) to add a measure of protection. Then throw in legally binding agreements (if necessary, complete with notarization) and require a certain amount of insurance for 'official' throwdown initiators.

    Or I could just be full of crap and not know what I'm talking about. Meh. Whatever. Hopefully nothing like that happens but you never know....
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