1/01/2007 3:00pm, #11
Originally Posted by Tonuzaba
- Join Date
- Apr 2005
The fun part of the story is that we had just finished watching UFC 1 and I was commenting on how it couldnt be that easy, why didnt they just punch that Royce guy.
I was converted on the spot but it took me a few years to find a school that I wanted to learn JJ from.
My evil secret is that I have a wooden dummy in my basement beside the room that is covered in mats, and beside the heavy bag."Sifu, I"m niether - I'm a fire dragon so don't **** with me!"
1/01/2007 3:28pm, #12
I tried it for about 6 mounths, in that time I never had to wear a mouth guard or a cup, any hits given or taken that hurt were accidents and I got tired of punching air. I mean hitting a focus mit was a rare occasion. The one school I went to had good conditioning at least and worked you pretty hard but contact was pretty much a no no. The second linage I tried was pretty much all forms work and some pretty basic drills. In wrestling we wrestled from the first practice and in boxing, even if I didn't hit people in the beginning I at least got to hit focus mits and the heavy bag.
The first school was more informal but 2nd one with the bowing and Sifu this and Sifu that **** got to me. I was 30 years older than him and I was an ex-Marine. And he asked me if I wanted to become a warrior. Pissed me off. Only made 4 classes there and then moved back to boxing with some bjj thrown in.
Last but not least the wing chun punch left a lot to be desired. Neither school had much power in their hitting.
Other than that it was great.
1/01/2007 3:37pm, #13
For now let me just link in the "what do chunners actually find useful" thread, which for a time turned into a comforting Wing Chun Anonymous group. We even had a 12-step as I recall.
I'll answer the original question when I have the energy. It takes a lot: there are a lot of reasons.
1/01/2007 4:06pm, #14Originally Posted by Tonuzaba
Here's the set-up: Worked with a guy (same place, different department). He did wing chun. He claimed the deadly, of course, and if he managed to corner me, he'd wax lyrical about centre line, chain punch and of course, lineage.
The main thing that got me interested was that they had a group of guys that cross-trained, and brought other stuff into the lessons, with the instructor's blessing.
So, this sounded cool. Mixing martial arts? Grappling and striking? Seemed like the way forward for a guy who'd studied bits of both, but never together.
I was interested in visiting and seeing this stuff in action, but the invite never came. He did invite me to visit his home to train (I've related this in another thread, so I'll abridge it) and I eventually agreed.
He showed me some stuff. It had sounded fine in theory, but I couldn't see it working in practice. He persuaded me to spar. I kicked him in the head, repeatedly. He couldn't make anything work. He was particularly vulnerable to round kicks and hooks.
I don't think for a minute that he was indicative of every wing chun practitioner; I actually think he'd have been pretty **** at whichever MA he'd chosen, but that's the reason I discontinued my interest in wing chun.
Welcome to the year 2BOND everybody!
Yeah, I got it. 2007.
1/01/2007 4:32pm, #15
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
Let's see, what made me stop -ing -un? Two classes made me stop. I was just so disappointed. I went to the classes to get a feel for some other perspectives on martial arts, thinking maybe I'd learn a thing or two. The instructor thought that he walked on water. I think the main reason I decided I didn't like it was because it was so blindingly obvious that it taught me ways to get my head knocked in. The whole class in a pigeon stance? No effective ground defense? Punching in a way that would damage my wrist over time? No thanks, I'll pass.
1/01/2007 4:47pm, #16
Originally Posted by sochin101
- Join Date
- Apr 2005
There are some great technical pieces in the style, you just need to throw out Chi Sao, lineage crap and the bowing to get to anything worth using. Oh and ditch the stance as well, the side stances dont work. The forward stance is pretty much a boxing stance, but change the hand positioning for god sakes.
As for chain punching, well it can be made to work - if used at the appropriate time:
Last edited by Askari; 1/01/2007 4:49pm at ."Sifu, I"m niether - I'm a fire dragon so don't **** with me!"
1/01/2007 4:47pm, #17Originally Posted by sochin101
So here it is, bulleted for ease of reading. Why I think _ing _un isn't much good. To clarify: my experience is 1 yr in a school affiliated with Wai Po Tang (UK), and about 7/8 years in a Keith Kernspecht/Leung Ting affiliated Wing Tsun school.
1. Movements based on theory, not practice. The empirical method is abandoned in favour of pseudo-science claptrap.
2. General lack of 'alive' training in most schools.
3. Chi sao. The theory: develops softness, and the ability to respond to any attack. The reality: a very complex 2-man kata.
4. Crap strikes. Arm punch? vertical fist? No. Just no. And where's the roundhouse kick?
5. Crap footwork and evasive movement. I have never, ever seen 'correct' WT footwork under pressure. From anyone. And for ****'s sake protect your chin.
6. WT vs WT sparring, LOL. :ingun: (had to get that smiley in somewhere)
7. 'Lat sao' - WT's answer to sparring. If you haven't seen it, you basically stand foot to foot, all 4 feet in one line, and start chain punching each other's arms. Occasionally one of you launches a different attack, and the other tries to defend it. 6. Chun vs Chun sparring. Ridiculous, on the odd occasion it's actually done. Linear slap-fighting.
8. Absurd charging structure, including paying for "information" at the higher grades. Thousands of pounds.
9. Standing around talking instead of training. Very, very common.
10. Too deadly for the ring/deadly strikes. Yes, it's true, a majority of chunners actually believe this myth. Apparently, finger strike to the throat is particularly deadly. And you can break the floating rib with a palm strike, etc etc, no rules my sifu would own in UFC, yadda yadda
11. Anti-crappling. Doesn't work against a 1 month BJJ white belt. Sorry. Elbow to the spine = DEATH, lol
13. Total lack of conditioning. And lifting weights is actually discouraged by a lot of instructors.
14. The geek factor. Where do they all come from?
15. The 'door security' factor. For some bizarre reason, quite a few doormen in the UK swear by _ing _un. I think this is because they're all huge, and only have to beat up drunk people. But that doesn't stop the 'doorman factor' from giving chunners another false source of legitimacy.
This is by no means an exhaustive list.
1/01/2007 4:54pm, #18
i did sit in on a few classes of wing chun
all the instructors and students were terrible at fighting, basically. everything chunners do is basically the noob **** that gets beaten out of you in a week of sparring at any halfway decent school.
1/01/2007 4:55pm, #19
Originally Posted by RunningDog
- Join Date
- Apr 2005
This doesnt include the wrestling I had done, the football and rugby I played through highschool and University.
The __ing __un I trained in looks nothing like what I find on Youtube or Google, it seems a lot more like KyokoshinKai then anything else. Our club sparred full contact and entered Kickboxing tournaments. Perhaps I attended the mythical 'Real' __ing __un club that I hear so much about. AND I still lost to the first JJ guy I sparred with."Sifu, I"m niether - I'm a fire dragon so don't **** with me!"
1/01/2007 5:08pm, #20Originally Posted by Askari
When I was teaching, I tried to turn the club into something like what you've described, with lots of contact, throws and roundhouse kicks. But after a while, I realized it was too broken to fix, and all the other instructors were happily LARPing away regardless.
Some things are just best left to die a natural death.