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  1. ONE TWO THREE FOUR FIVE is offline
    ONE TWO THREE FOUR FIVE's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    12/28/2006 4:29pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Getting the best out of trainning with smaller people

    I have a question for all the fatties, gym monkies and freaks of nature out there.

    I'm the heaviest guy in my class, theres a couple of guys in the class who are close to my size and the don't train regularly so sometimes I end up having to train with someone smaller than me, the problem with this is it makes it easy for me to muscle through techniques whenever we drill, then when it comes to randori or competition I find the throw doesn't work on people the same size as me.

    What do you do when your paired with someone smaller than you to get the most out of your trainning? The obvious ones I can think of are:

    1) Rely on the techniques that you know are timing dependant rather than strength dependant
    2) Not using any strength and relying on technique (Obvious but I sometimes find it hard to tell if I'm trying to muscle through a technique to much/ Not enough)
    3) Try to grab one of the more experienced guys in class, helps a little in drilling as they can tell if I'm compensating for technique with strength and helps a lot in randoori because I just can't muscle through a technique against them
    4) Try working stuff from underneath when I'm doing groundwork, at least this way I'm not going to be using my weight advantage to squish them, no point trying hard to crush the guy if its trainning as I just end up tyring them out

    Anyone got any other hints? Any less obvious ways to make the most out of trainning when this happens?
    Last edited by ONE TWO THREE FOUR FIVE; 12/28/2006 4:32pm at .
  2. Ming Loyalist is offline
    Ming Loyalist's Avatar

    solves problems with violence

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    Posted On:
    12/28/2006 4:59pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo, Hung Family Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    i would like some of this advice to hand out to my sparring partners, speaking as a 145lb guy who has to roll with the 200lb+ crew all the time.
    "Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
    "When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
    "Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
    "Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj
  3. saku39 is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/28/2006 6:34pm


     Style: taido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    no way, i like being the much smaller guy when the bigger guys go all out. that's how i learn and improve the quickest.
  4. ONE TWO THREE FOUR FIVE is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/28/2006 6:58pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by saku39
    no way, i like being the much smaller guy when the bigger guys go all out. that's how i learn and improve the quickest.
    Don't know if your replying to me or Ming but for the big guy this is a real pain in the ass, if I'm up against someone with the same amount of trainning as me I can usually blitz them easily enough because they're smaller but I don't learn jack from doing it then I go to a grading and get my ass royally kicked because I'm not used to having to defend the sort of throws people try on me and I'm not used to grip fighting against guys as strong as I am.
  5. MONGO is offline

    Middleweight

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    Posted On:
    12/28/2006 8:32pm

    supporting member
     Style: na

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you are rolling with a small guy, try to match his pace and speed. Try to move like a light small guy and play a light/manuverable game.

    If you are small, try to use postitioning to hold down the strong guys. If technique is properly applied, it is possible to hold down and postitionally dominate a larger opponent.
  6. Red Elvis is offline
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    Da Komrads... Again you are MadPelvisOwn3d!

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    Posted On:
    12/28/2006 9:28pm

    supporting member
     Style: Spetsnaz Shovel-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MONGO
    If you are small, try to use postitioning to hold down the strong guys. If technique is properly applied, it is possible to hold down and postitionally dominate a larger opponent.
    Or you could just use technique to move around your opponent instead of trying to control somebody wasting energy. Trying to CONTROL a much bigger guy relies on strength more than it does technique.

    =====================

    As for the question from the OP. Like previously mentioned work your speed, don't use your strength and keep light. Practice flowing from technique to technique and put yourself in positions you are not normally in. If somebody has you in a position or submission that you can't escape without using strength than keep working it until you can.

    Example: A smaller guy is trying to armbar you. You lock your hands and the smaller guy can't break your grip. Now, if he's experienced he has options he can transition too to continue the armbar or to submit you another way. Watch and learn what he does.

    Now, you armbar him letting him lock his grip. Normally you can power out of it with your strength advantage but instead use the same techniques he uses to counter his "implied" strength.

    It's a win win for you both. He can work techniques against stronger guys and you can work the same techniques that you can then apply to bigger stronger guys when out powering is not an option.

    Take this mindset and apply it to throws, passing, control, positioning etc.
    .
    :icon_twis
    .

    To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence;
    Supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without spilling your Guinness.
    Sun "Fu Man JhooJits" Tzu, the Art of War & Guinness
  7. Xanen is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/28/2006 10:29pm


     Style: BJJ (Blue)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ru Klas pretty much said it.

    As a small guy (150), I'm usually on the opposite side of this equation. Things not to do:
    1) Grab something and crank it with all of your might. (Instant sore neck for 2 weeks)
    2) Pop someone's ribs with your full 230lb knee-on-sternum. (2 months no training)

    Needless to say, those guys have both lost a training partner. Occasionally, I will train with people like this to keep myself honest. For daily training, though, the injury risk is too high.

    Things to do:
    1) Work on your defense/weaknesses.
    2) Work your transitions.
    3) Be careful with your partner!!

    If you don't get a sweep/sub/escape smoothly, then transition. If you **** something up, just go with it. Don't use your muscle/size to try to hold on to a tenuous position. As you have seen, it won't work against someone your size.
  8. kidmidnight is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    12/29/2006 12:14am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    When rolling with someone smaller I try to use little to no strength. I just use as much as they give me and no more. I try to work off of my back more too. When I do use hold downs or knee rides, I float a bit as not to crush them. When I do get superior position or a submission I will let them escape if they executed the reversal correctly instead of crushing their defense with strength. On the other hand, I won't use strength or size to stop their subs. I force myself to rely on technique to get out. If I am unable to escape with just decent technique, I tap.
  9. Red Elvis is offline
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    Da Komrads... Again you are MadPelvisOwn3d!

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    Posted On:
    12/29/2006 12:59am

    supporting member
     Style: Spetsnaz Shovel-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Kudos to you brotha. Your game will grow because of this.
    .
    :icon_twis
    .

    To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence;
    Supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without spilling your Guinness.
    Sun "Fu Man JhooJits" Tzu, the Art of War & Guinness
  10. fanatical is offline
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    Hi, guys

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    Posted On:
    12/29/2006 11:57am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes. Because that's what small guys have to do all the time. We can NEVER depend on strength to get out of a larger guys sub. We can never depend on size to smash someone. We can never depend on strength to control, to force, to attack or defend. We HAVE to depend on technique. Which is what makes Jits so damn much fun when you understand a bit. Because "**** it really works".

    Then again you could just power your way through every small guy you meet, but it wouldn't really give you anything back. You'd only be helping the smaller guy getting experience with huge guys while annoying him at the same time.
    More human than human is our motto.
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