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  1. Rock Ape is online now
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    Watch and Shoot !

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    Posted On:
    12/28/2006 11:32pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinshoryu
    You have a Shodan in Aikido and you don't even mention it on your style field!!!. Shame on you... Are you afraid of something???, come on, embrace the RED VARROTS CLUB.
    Yeh I'm about to use those two little yellow words... just to piss people off lol
  2. Rock Ape is online now
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    Posted On:
    12/28/2006 11:41pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtua
    Maybe it is not about reinventing the wheel, it is more about the ambition to do some reforms, because as we know there is a problem with the training method in most dojos.
    As a matter of interest, are you familiar with either phrases.. Ara waza / oyo waza ? As a shodan of a half reasonable dojo, I'd expect those holding Yudansha grades to understand and be able to apply the differences in, Kihon, (Basic) Oyo (Applied) and Ara (Severe) training.
  3. Mr. Jones is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/28/2006 11:47pm

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     Style: Being a total psychopath

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    I have never heard the word Oyo or Ara in Japanese martial arts. We prefer to use English in a English speaking country.
    カンフー
  4. Virtua is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/28/2006 11:49pm


     Style: nothing right now

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinshoryu
    You have a Shodan in Aikido and you don't even mention it on your style field!!!. Shame on you... Are you afraid of something???, come on, embrace the RED VARROTS CLUB.
    Okay, okay I will join the club. Even if I am not training right now I will mention it. :redface:
  5. Virtua is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/28/2006 11:57pm


     Style: nothing right now

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Humm
    As a matter of interest, are you familiar with either phrases.. Ara waza / oyo waza ? As a shodan of a half reasonable dojo, I'd expect those holding Yudansha grades to understand and be able to apply the differences in, Kihon, (Basic) Oyo (Applied) and Ara (Severe) training.
    I am familiar with these. After becoming Shodan, we did much Oyo waza, and occasionally ara waza . But arawaza was still nothing compared to my first judo match, where people really fought hard to win.
  6. Virtua is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/29/2006 12:00am


     Style: nothing right now

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Jones
    I have never heard the word Oyo or Ara in Japanese martial arts. We prefer to use English in a English speaking country.
    I don't live in an english speaking country. So what would be the english terms for that?
  7. GRAB MY WRIST is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/29/2006 12:05am


     Style: Jabs & Cross Kung Fu

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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtua
    Maybe it is not about reinventing the wheel, it is more about the ambition to do some reforms, because as we know there is a problem with the training method in most dojos.

    As an instructor you can make a change. I only have a shodan in Aikido so I only can help myself with crosstraining.

    I am lucky that I had a good Aikido instructor, but sometimes it is not only the problem of the instruction. In our small dojo there were only 3 blackbelt students who really trained with a serious attitude. The other showed up only occasionally, where tired from work and only want to dance around a bit. Maybe you can imagine how frustrating it is to train with someone who will nearly fall asleep when punching you.
    The culture is markedly different. I have the same problem. The people in my aikido dojo tend to see aikido as a social past-time, and they practice as such. In my judo club, I have state players and what not and these people are true blue athlete. They do not know what "take it easy mean".

    So if I am feeling a bit lazy or laissez-faire, I will trudge along to my aikido club and so some light work-out. If I am a bit adventurous.... I go Randori with those athlete. Another way of putting it simply... If I want to get a light workout without feeling being run over by a truck, I do aikido. See... the brilliant GMW has the best of both world.

    GMW
  8. Rock Ape is online now
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    Posted On:
    12/29/2006 12:05am

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Jones
    I have never heard the word Oyo or Ara in Japanese martial arts. We prefer to use English in a English speaking country.
    .. LOL ok.. Basic / Applied / Severe training. I did give the English translations with the Nihongo.

    My point being is that many aikido dojo don't study anything other than Kihon. (basic) Whilst henka waza (variation technique) and Kaeshi waza (counter technique) exist within "Kihon Dosa" and I accept the foundation of quality training rests with basic skills, students must at some point understand how to apply techniques against resistance (applied techniques) however, even though resistance is being applied, the principle of ukemi still exists but, once oyo waza is fully understood, students can progress onto ara waza (severe application) which involves tori removing pretty much all opportunity for ukemi.

    What becomes very obvious as students progress through to ara waza, is that many aikido techniques just take too long to complete or just don't fit the dynamics of a modern "fight" In my experience, almost all ara waza is irimi based triangular movement. Although tenkan exists, the tenkan is make by tori not uke, uke almost exclusively moves in linear lines and is accompanied with solid atemi either before, during and or after application of a particular technique.

    You'd never see uchi-kaiten, soto-kaiten et al because these forms of movement/application are based upon koryu principles.
    Last edited by Rock Ape; 12/29/2006 12:08am at .
  9. Mr. Jones is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/29/2006 12:05am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Being a total psychopath

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    Quote Originally Posted by Virtua
    I don't live in an english speaking country. So what would be the english terms for that?
    we just call it training or practice. theres no need to call it all that different stuff.
    カンフー
  10. Mr. Jones is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/29/2006 12:06am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Being a total psychopath

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Humm
    .. LOL ok.. Basic / Applied / Severe training. I did give the English translations with the Nihongo.

    My point being is that many aikido dojo don't study anything other than Kihon. (basic) Whilst henka waza (variation technique) and Kaeshi waza (counter technique) exist within "Kihon Dosa" and I accept the foundation of quality training rests with basic skills, students must at some point understand how to apply techniques against resistance (applied techniques) however, even though resistance is being applied, the principle of ukemi still exists but, once oyo waza is fully understood, students can progress onto ara waza (severe application) which involves tori removing pretty much all opportunity for ukemi.

    What becomes very obvious as students progress through to ara waza, is that many aikido techniques just take too long to complete or just don't fit the dynamics of a modern "fight" In my experience, almost all ara waza is irimi based triangular movement. Although tenkan exists, the tenkan is make by tori not uke, uke almost exclusively moves in linear lines.

    You'd never see uchi-kaiten, soto-kaiten et al because these forms of movement/application are based upon koryu principles.
    This sounds like stuff you do because you don't spar.
    カンフー
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