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  1. Sith_Lord is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/01/2007 1:38pm


     Style: Not lost...Found Judo+MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yes, Happo Giri, I guess Aikido wasn't for me because it made me feel childish doing Katas, and since 30% of time in the weekly classes went to Katas, and less on waza, it didn't balance out. Sword-Staff-Body, the "Riai" yes, I know the whole spiel, but it just didn't satisfy me anymore.

    Accuracy, understanding, timing, kokyu (breathing), co-ordination, strength, posture, movement, discipline, awareness.

    Can easily be achieved with a valid striking art such as boxing, MT, Kick-Boxing in probably less than 6 months to a year when compared to the time to really get your teeth into Aikido.

    The only tangible difference between those attributes (above) applied to aikido and say MMA/BJJ et al, is the era from which those attributes were borne. For aikido those are drawn from an era when people did in fact carry swords, spears etc. See my earlier comments/posts about aikido having an identity crisis.
    Indeed.

    Sparring and Resistance should be at the root of any reasonable modern-day MA...
  2. Rock Ape is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/01/2007 1:50pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    On the topic of aikido being religious or containing practices which are overly "ritual"

    The founder of aikido was to my understanding a religious person but that isnít unique for a; An indigenous Japanese b; A devout budoka living in that particular era.

    It would be very easy for me to point readers in several direction relating to classical and perhaps slightly more modern (still Japanese) martial arts where religious acts influence the study however; I do accept that aikido does seem to portray aspects of itself as a religious practice. But.. It is important to understand that aikido as an entity only becomes animate when people study it therefore; aikido can only be religious if its students wish it to be.

    Within my dojo I have a kamiza, a small 'shrine' dedicated to the memory of Morihei Ueshiba, his son Kisshomaru and most recently, William Smith OBE. (The sadly recently deceased principal of the organisation to which I belong) The Kamiza its self does not represent any overt religious bias, it merely exists as part of the dojo to pay respects to the memory of people who are an integral part of (for me) Aikido.

    There is a saying often quoted by the founder of aikido.. "Budo begins and ends with respect"; and with this simple philosophy in mind, a few Japanese social customs are an accepted part of a student's learning of a Japanese martial system.

    At the beginning of class students should be given the opportunity of a few moments of silent contemplation, this is not meditation, Zen or any other esoteric practice, it is nothing more than gathering one's focus or concentration to the practice ahead, and an opportunity to forget the stresses of daily life [whatever those may be] this is known as mokuso . This lasts probably no more than 60-90 seconds in duration.

    Following mokuso, the class performs a salutation to the kamiza and then to the instructor, this is nothing more than a sign of respect, indeed given that Japanese custom is to bow rather than shake hands, an un-assumed bow is perfectly legitimate and a polite way of showing a degree of respect for the environment IE the dojo and the to the person about to offer instruction.

    I used the term "un-assumed" because its important to point out that if a student chooses to place more emphasis in what the act of bowing should actually represent to a western student, then that person is IMHO assuming far too much.

    During the process of the bow toward the instructor, many aikido dojo observe the practice of saying onegaisimas. Many people understand that term to literally mean "please teach me" however this is not accurate. Understanding context is very important to understanding the meaning of particular Japanese phrases and statements; onegaishimas is no different. What it this phrase is more accurately used for is essentially when one is asking for someone else to do something for you, like a favour. Indeed I might preface a request to an absolute stranger with gomennasai onegaishimas... Nan-ji desu kaExcuse me | I'm sorry (as in to bother you), what time is it ? .

    So in terms of onegaishimas said in the dojo, you are contextually asking for someone to teach/practice with you.

    At the end of a class during the final bow, students may say domo arigato gozaimashita which is a very formal way of saying thank you very much, but, again contextually you are thanking the instructor and fellow students for training with you.

    If those few customs/practices are seen as overly "ritual" I would have to disagree, study of Japanese arts involves an understandng of very basic Japanese customs.
    "To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".

    ~Ella Wheeler
  3. Rock Ape is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/01/2007 1:57pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Humm
    Accuracy, understanding, timing, kokyu (breathing), co-ordination, strength, posture, movement, discipline, awareness.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sith_Lord
    Can easily be achieved with a valid striking art such as boxing, MT, Kick-Boxing in probably less than 6 months to a year when compared to the time to really get your teeth into Aikido.
    ...And no one least of all me is disputing that fact however, you're still missing the point of my posts; Aikido isn't intended to be a fighting art which fits neatly into the concepts of other more modern, more applicable arts yet, and said with respect, people try desperately to compare it with those concepts and arts yet, as you have found to your expense of time, trying to compare aikido and its methodologies to the arts you mention just causes problems.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sith_Lord
    Sparring and Resistance should be at the root of any reasonable modern-day MA...
    Please read my posts in this thread on aikido and its identity crisis.

    Dave
    "To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".

    ~Ella Wheeler
  4. DCS is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/01/2007 4:23pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 柔道

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So, i spend 3 days in the "highlands" and what i see when i arrive?

    An aikido thread that goes serious.... BS is losing edge :)

    Dave (and others, of course), don't you think aikido's "identity crisis" is more related to a distorted/misunderstood view of aikido in the western world (and modern Japan) than to the art itself?

    I found this article points to some interesting things about the subject.

    otoh,

    Quote Originally Posted by velomaster
    ... there are reputable organizations that call themselves aikibudo, and are well known in Canada an all over Europe and recognized in Japan.
    But not the one you pointed to, unless "reputable" means something different there.
    Last edited by DCS; 1/01/2007 5:48pm at .
  5. Mr. Jones is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/01/2007 5:17pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Being a total psychopath

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have no idea where you find this stuff dcs. I'll have to read it sometime later today. Dcs is it true that Saito was considered weird for a Japanese teacher because he allowed people to ask questions?
    カンフー
  6. DCS is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/01/2007 5:43pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: 柔道

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Jones
    I have no idea where you find this stuff dcs.
    In places you have managed to get banned :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Jones
    Dcs is it true that Saito was considered weird for a Japanese teacher because he allowed people to ask questions?
    I can't confirm that but all the people i know who have trained with Saito have a simmilar way of teaching, dissecting techniques in pieces, explaining them step by step and being open to questions about the how's s and why's for every step if needed.

    So i suppose Saito's pedagogical method has been adopted by his students.
    Last edited by DCS; 1/01/2007 5:47pm at .
  7. Rock Ape is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/01/2007 6:07pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DCS
    Dave (and others, of course), don't you think aikido's "identity crisis" is more related to a distorted/misunderstood view of aikido in the western world (and modern Japan) than to the art itself?
    Yes.. 100%
    "To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".

    ~Ella Wheeler
  8. Shinshoryu is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/01/2007 6:53pm


     Style: Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DCS
    Dave (and others, of course), don't you think aikido's "identity crisis" is more related to a distorted/misunderstood view of aikido in the western world (and modern Japan) than to the art itself?
    I really do not handle 1/4 of the historical background that has been posted here, which is so obviously critical for understanding. My understanding comes mostly from observation of the technical aspects, a few things read and some others heard/asked from shihan and shidoin. So IMHO yes, I would think so too.
  9. Rock Ape is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/01/2007 7:06pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinshoryu
    I really do not handle 1/4 of the historical background that has been posted here, which is so obviously critical for understanding. My understanding comes mostly from observation of the technical aspects, a few things read and some others heard/asked from shihan and shidoin. So IMHO yes, I would think so too.
    When you say you don't handle 1/4 of the historical background, what do you mean by this ?

    You don't beleive it or you just don't subscribe to it?
    "To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".

    ~Ella Wheeler
  10. GRAB MY WRIST is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/01/2007 11:18pm


     Style: Jabs & Cross Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Dave,

    Happy new year to you. I have specific question wrt atemi in aikido.

    Granted, I am a believer that atemi is crucial to aikido technique application. However my question is how do you train atemi with aliveness?

    Do I need to start puching heavy bags? Cross train in boxing? Do I need to start whacking my uke? Granted this whacking of uke thingy is making me very unpopular among my aikido dojo mates.

    There are some indirect methodology that my dojo mates are using to enhance/augment our striking capabilities. They are:
    1) doing Kendo type drills i.e., using shinai to hit each other ala yokomen with full force. Tori hits, uke defend, then we reverse the role.
    2) lots of ken/jo suburi. 200 cuts after every class.

    In your opinion, are these good drills to enhance our atemi capabilities?

    GMW.

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