12/29/2006 10:31pm, #101Originally Posted by Gabster the Bad Elf
12/29/2006 11:11pm, #102Originally Posted by Gabster the Bad Elf
That probably depends a lot on the school and the instructor. Would you expect to be able to show up at Paris Island with your ReaTree cammies and a Rem 700 and be allowed to play with the Marines? When I first went to the Kumano Juku Dojo, I asked Hikizuchi-sensei in my most polite Japanese if I could watch one of his classes. Like I'd said before, I'd had a bad Aikido experience before, but everyone I worke with at the local high school said that this was the place to train MA in town, so I was willing to at least go watch a class. After I'd been watching for about 15 minutes or so, H-sensei sauntered over to me (I'm sure there is a bette word than "suantered" to describe the casual, yet grounded and focused way that H-sensei walked) and asked me if I wanted to train with him. I was wearing an oxford shirt and slacks and pointed out that I was not really dressed to train. He told me that clothing was the least important thing about training and to get up and train with him if I was really interested in studying Aikido. He then proceded to kick my ass. After that, he let me wear whatever I wanted until my first paycheck came in and I could buy a judo gi (the magic pants are only for yudansha).
All that aside, as I state earlier, part of the idea of the uniform is to break down one's previous sense of self and to create a whole new sense of self based on the training in the dojo. This was directly borrowed by the Japanese from Western military training methodology, along with the other regimented dojo rituals. Prior the the Meiji Ishin, MA practitioners in Japan and Okinawa wore whatever was comfortable to work out in and dojo etiquette was much more like one sees in BJJ schools. In that respect, BJJ is probably more Koryu than a lot of Koryu schools that adopted the Western inspired military regimentation and ritual of the post Meiji Ishin period.
Last edited by TEA; 12/29/2006 11:25pm at .
12/30/2006 12:36am, #103
- Join Date
- Mar 2006
- Jabs & Cross Kung Fu
This is an exceprt from a poster in Judoforum, who according to his profile is a Judo Sandan with more than 20 years practice in Judo.
Originally Posted by Taigyo
12/30/2006 1:04am, #104
GMW, FWIW, one can muscle through a crappily applied Aikido technique, too. Those in the magic pants tend to frown on such vulgar displays of force, though. :wink: Of course, H-sensei was in his 70s, about 5'2" and 120 lbs, but he could still kick my ass when I was 21, 5'8" and 150 lbs.
Last edited by TEA; 12/30/2006 1:07am at .
12/30/2006 1:20am, #105
Originally Posted by TEA
- Join Date
- Mar 2006
- Jabs & Cross Kung Fu
With my 200lbs pound body weight I could easily bull doze through my aikido sensei... and I have tried before, he always move out of the way and reapply a different technique to control me again.
TEA, after all Aikido is derived from aiki - JU-jutsu much like JU-do.
12/30/2006 1:45am, #106Originally Posted by GRAB MY WRIST
12/30/2006 2:03am, #107Originally Posted by Gabster the Bad Elf
12/30/2006 2:27am, #108
Its also interesting to note that the prison system first adopted uniforms with the same basic concept of breaking down a convict's indiividuality and remolding him in the shape of the penitary society. This, of course, way predates Kano and Funakoshi, the first who invented most of the uniform/etiquette of modern Japanese budo, and the latter who popularized it as a part of the "traditional" Japanese bushido that underlay the true heart of the Japanese spirit (gag, gag, cough, cough).
12/30/2006 4:19am, #109
What really grips your **** about Aikido and or its practitioners ?
Lets not bring up hakama, its a part of the uniform, what I'm interested in is the core gripes people have, if you post sincerely I'll do my best to answer those gripes based upon my own experiences.
I haven't been exposed to many other styles of Aikido or people from different schools and the ones I have been military or ex-military a lot of the time. I'm not sure if this makes a difference.
I don't see what the problem with the hakama is. I think they look cool, maybe I'll have a change of opinion when I actually wear one? If it's a part of the tradition or uniform then it's a part of it. If you're from a highland regiment you wear a kilt, even if your not scottish. Seems like one of the biggest slams against Aikido is wearing a Hakama?
As for everyone trashing Katas, I think there is a time or place for them
One example given to me was If your rifle jams you perform a kata. Look to the bolt see what position it's in, if it's fully to the rear then your out of ammo, replace the mag. Fully forward and the bolt didn't properly pick up a round bla bla.
Not sure why people think Kata's are the end of the world. Of course MA wise if someone sticks to only katas and doesn't fight well theres problems with that. Thats been covered a million times. Dead horse.
All In all I don't know enough about Aikido to really come up with a decent argument against it, aside of course whats been pointed out time and time again. I like it. The people are awesome, I've used it successfully in a fight and at work.
I'm willing to bet a few people here spout off about martial arts, what works and what doesn't etc.. having never been in a real fight. (Some on the other hand of course)
While studying Aikido I try and listen to other peoples justified and unjustified shortcommings with Aikido (Which is why I hang around at bullshido) and work at changing it to make mine better. I deffinatly think there is something to be said for mixing martial arts.
You don't bring only one gun to a battle and you don't bring only one golf club when you're golfing is how I see it.
As for ettiquette and "ritual" I don't know.
When you meet someone you shake their hand. Ritual.
When you're in someones car you ask them before you light up a cigarette. Ettiquette.
You take dirty shoes off before going in someones house.
Your about to train with someone you shake hands bow or touch gloves, why is a sign of respect for another human a bad thing? Too much of it yes but common sense is the key.
With regard to Steven Seagal being as ***** I don't know that either. He could kick my ass. I'm guessing he could hold his own against quite a few people in here, fat version or skinny.
Is condeming a martial art because someone who uses that MA got defeated smart? Not at all, thats silly.
Last edited by vigilus; 12/30/2006 7:30am at .
12/30/2006 10:13am, #110
I'll respond in detail to people's questions later however;Originally Posted by Gabster the Bad Elf
"evolution" this could be a subjective word because, in terms of this thread, aikido has developed in the last 60 years since its introduction to the western world however; depending upon who you talk too aikido has either "developed" during this time or, been subjected to a "devolutionary" process resulting from over indulgence in individual ideological/philosophical interpretation of the founder's words/teachings/beliefs and, strayed from a martial discipline. The fact is, both are true.
The reason why this has happened is quite simple. Firstly Aikido is a gendai system with little or no formal kata dictating the methodology of its hand art, this allows anyone to inject their own personal interpretation (good or bad) even before they've spent any real time learning; Secondly, although being a modern art, aikido retains almost all of the old school methodologies which serve as its primary influences, those training methods and reasoningís just don't work in the dynamics of modern conflict, thus, we have a "modern discipline" which doesn't ultimately function as a "modern fighting art"; Thirdly, aikido (despite being modern) has no real contemporary way of pressure testing, this isn't because its been dropped or avoided, its because there never has been - just like a koryu art.
Remembering of course that those koryu bujutsu which exist today, exist because they were proven to work on the field of battle, those systems which were strategically/technically unsound died (as did their exponents), that's the pressure testing which existed in feudal times, that and duels most of which ended in "aiuchi" mutual death.
I've long believed that aikido has a very bad case of identity crisis. New yet old.
In contrast; as a student of kendo and koryu MSR iaido, both of which have very formal kata but, there's little room for personal interpretation yet both have strong philosophical attachments however; neither art is seen as overly 'spiritual' or 'religious' but, any art associated with the Japanese sword (including aikido) has extremely deep attachment to the very core of Japanese society and its reigi (forms of etiquette)
Last edited by Rock Ape; 12/30/2006 10:18am at .