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  1. mhall is offline

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    Dec 2006
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    1

    Posted On:
    12/27/2006 8:49pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Isshyru

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Stop trashing styles

    Invited to speak as a newbie, I'll speak. It's the person, not the style that wins. One of the toughest martial artists I ever met was a sub-5-0' Iranian who trained shotokan. He was a brown belt when I knew him, but I'd take him in a brawl anytime, anywhere. Heart of friggin' lion, with one shot power that was scary. He told me his instructor had them throw straight kicks for hours until they fell down - nearly a 1000 a day. Needless to say, his front kick would bury you and it came very quick. I also used to do three point blocking with him and my arms shivered - and I was recruited Div. 1 as a wrestler and outweighed the little beast by 30 pounds.

    So, as my current instructor says, it's all kick, block, punch, and wrestle. Buddha developed kung fu, which spread disparately in different forms in South Asia, Korea, Okinawa, and Japan (and then to Brasil!). Samurai philosophy and sword technique joined along sometime afterward on parallel track, probably with some cross pollination. Early karate featured defeats of judokan and ju jitsu fighters. A tougher breed of Karate practitioners, perhaps. Now ju jitsu and muay thai fighters claim supremacy. Modern kung fu seems reduced to ballet. But it's an age old, meaningless debate. Styles are meaningless, as the individual dedication is key. I'll take Mas Oyama in his prime against any Gracie or MMA fighter on the planet in a bare knuckle, no holds barred, fight. There's probably a couple of monks from Shoalin in the past that would trash them all. Not to mention O Sensai or Yip Man. There's also a certain Greco Roman heavy weight champ from Russia that might just stomp the piss out of many of them. Who knows? I don't think the particular style would control the outcome.

    Anyway, you get my drift. Modern fighting rules favor styles. Muay Thai rules put gloves on karate fighters and boxers, whose best techniques utilize their hands, so they are left at a disadvantage to get pounded by lower leg techniques and knees, which are the center of the Muay Thai disclipline. I've never seen a Muay Thai fighter that could stand up to a truly good boxer, so put the pads on the shins and let the boxers have at it with only hard taped knuckles. See who wins. Also, wrestling is prohibited, so you can't simply trap and drag a Muay Thai fighter to the ground. MMA fights favor wrestlers and BBJ folks because the room to move is limited, and you can't strike the eyes, knees, or throat- and you can't bite, which is a wrestler's worst nightmare. Kyokushin is limited to the body (except for kicks, which can't go to the knees or the face), and you can't trap or wrestle. Even the closest of full contact styles, Vale Tudor, is limited because you can only pound on an ankle or a wrist, you can't bite through a wrist or an Achilles or stick your finger in an eye.

    In the end, folks, we're all limited in the styles we practice by the fact that you simply cannot practice true to the end game of hard combat without causing severe injury or death. All of us, from whatever the style are taught, have technigues in the arsenal which cannot be used in sport. Saying that one style is better than another, without the implementation of all the angles of each is baloney. It's akin to saying I'll fight you with one hand behind my back. Be serious. Like I said at the beginning, I'll take my little Iranian shotokan brown belt in a life or death street fight over 99% of the morons claiming supremacy of style on this site, any day - and I'll give you odds.
  2. Doctor X is offline
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    ARGUMENTUM AD LATINUM DICTIONAIRUM

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    4,383

    Posted On:
    12/27/2006 8:52pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Argumenta ad Rem

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    tl:dr

    In response to the title of the thread, "No."

    --J.D.
  3. Doctor X is offline
    Doctor X's Avatar

    ARGUMENTUM AD LATINUM DICTIONAIRUM

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    4,383

    Posted On:
    12/27/2006 8:52pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Argumenta ad Rem

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It would help, methinks, for one to spell their style correctly in their style-field.

    --J.D.
  4. Mr. Jones is offline
    Mr. Jones's Avatar

    resident sick ****

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    Dallas
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    3,309

    Posted On:
    12/27/2006 8:53pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Being a total psychopath

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Welcome to bullshido. This is newbie town so they should go easy on you.
    カンフー
  5. Phrost is offline
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    Join Date
    Jun 1998
    Location
    Cow Town
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    19,098

    Posted On:
    12/27/2006 9:03pm

    Business Class Supporting Memberstaff
     Guy Who Pays the Bills and Gets the Death Threats Style: MMA (Retired)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Not anymore.

    Newbietown is not for arguments.
  6. hoodedmonk is offline
    hoodedmonk's Avatar

    Senior Member

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    Oct 2006
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    Carson WA.
    Posts
    2,401

    Posted On:
    12/27/2006 9:04pm


     Style: Bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by mhall
    Invited to speak as a newbie, I'll speak. It's the person, not the style that wins. One of the toughest martial artists I ever met was a sub-5-0' Iranian who trained shotokan. He was a brown belt when I knew him, but I'd take him in a brawl anytime, anywhere. Heart of friggin' lion, with one shot power that was scary. He told me his instructor had them throw straight kicks for hours until they fell down - nearly a 1000 a day. Needless to say, his front kick would bury you and it came very quick. I also used to do three point blocking with him and my arms shivered - and I was recruited Div. 1 as a wrestler and outweighed the little beast by 30 pounds.

    So, as my current instructor says, it's all kick, block, punch, and wrestle. Buddha developed kung fu, which spread disparately in different forms in South Asia, Korea, Okinawa, and Japan (and then to Brasil!). Samurai philosophy and sword technique joined along sometime afterward on parallel track, probably with some cross pollination. Early karate featured defeats of judokan and ju jitsu fighters. A tougher breed of Karate practitioners, perhaps. Now ju jitsu and muay thai fighters claim supremacy. Modern kung fu seems reduced to ballet. But it's an age old, meaningless debate. Styles are meaningless, as the individual dedication is key. I'll take Mas Oyama in his prime against any Gracie or MMA fighter on the planet in a bare knuckle, no holds barred, fight. There's probably a couple of monks from Shoalin in the past that would trash them all. Not to mention O Sensai or Yip Man. There's also a certain Greco Roman heavy weight champ from Russia that might just stomp the piss out of many of them. Who knows? I don't think the particular style would control the outcome.

    Anyway, you get my drift. Modern fighting rules favor styles. Muay Thai rules put gloves on karate fighters and boxers, whose best techniques utilize their hands, so they are left at a disadvantage to get pounded by lower leg techniques and knees, which are the center of the Muay Thai disclipline. I've never seen a Muay Thai fighter that could stand up to a truly good boxer, so put the pads on the shins and let the boxers have at it with only hard taped knuckles. See who wins. Also, wrestling is prohibited, so you can't simply trap and drag a Muay Thai fighter to the ground. MMA fights favor wrestlers and BBJ folks because the room to move is limited, and you can't strike the eyes, knees, or throat- and you can't bite, which is a wrestler's worst nightmare. Kyokushin is limited to the body (except for kicks, which can't go to the knees or the face), and you can't trap or wrestle. Even the closest of full contact styles, Vale Tudor, is limited because you can only pound on an ankle or a wrist, you can't bite through a wrist or an Achilles or stick your finger in an eye.

    In the end, folks, we're all limited in the styles we practice by the fact that you simply cannot practice true to the end game of hard combat without causing severe injury or death. All of us, from whatever the style are taught, have technigues in the arsenal which cannot be used in sport. Saying that one style is better than another, without the implementation of all the angles of each is baloney. It's akin to saying I'll fight you with one hand behind my back. Be serious. Like I said at the beginning, I'll take my little Iranian shotokan brown belt in a life or death street fight over 99% of the morons claiming supremacy of style on this site, any day - and I'll give you odds.
    What about the greeks and pankration?
  7. waxteeth is offline

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    Dec 2006
    Posts
    6

    Posted On:
    12/27/2006 9:04pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by mhall
    Modern fighting rules favor styles.

    It's a very good point.
  8. Virus is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Aug 2005
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    Australia
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    6,967

    Posted On:
    12/27/2006 9:11pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Are we not allowed to argue this post?
  9. Mr. Jones is offline
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    resident sick ****

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    Dallas
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    3,309

    Posted On:
    12/27/2006 9:12pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Being a total psychopath

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Virus
    Are we not allowed to argue this post?
    We are now since it's removed from newbie town.
    カンフー
  10. ONE TWO THREE FOUR FIVE is offline
    ONE TWO THREE FOUR FIVE's Avatar

    Registered Member

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    Jul 2004
    Location
    North England
    Posts
    643

    Posted On:
    12/27/2006 9:14pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Virus
    Are we not allowed to argue this post?
    It's not so much that no one wants to argue the point as no one can be bothered to argue the point, everyones all argued out it seems.
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