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  1. Lu Tze is offline

    BJJ might make you a better ground fighter, but Judo will make you a better dancer.

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    Posted On:
    1/06/2007 6:07am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MaartenSFS
    Quite ironic, yes. Not to mention Judo. But I have worked with both now and Shuai Jiao is a lot more hardcore. The difference is almost as big as TKD and MT. I'm disappointed by a lot of things in China, but I'm glad that I came here as I am now happily married and have a successful career ahead of me. And I am Dutch. ;)
    Hmm, be warned that I'm a huge judo nutrider. From the videos I've seen of shuai jiao, and taking into account the requirement for competition in judo, I'd say the opposite is probably true.

    Nutriding aside, I doubt the difference is that pronounced though, both arts are similar enough and are trained in almost the same way.
  2. meng_mao is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/06/2007 8:55am

    supporting member
     Style: kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So your point is..."man it was hard to find good MA in China. Now I've found it, and I'll do it." Ok, that's cool.

    I don't think you really acknowledge what earlier posters were saying about staying in the Netherlands and training 'native' arts there, where they flourish. That little inconsistency plus your predilection for 'collecting' MAs just makes you seem a little off. Of course bla bla bla this is the internet bla bla bla.
    52 blocks documentary: arrived

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  3. MaartenSFS is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/06/2007 9:55am


     Style: Sanda, Taijiquan ( Chen)

    -1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lu Tze
    Hmm, be warned that I'm a huge judo nutrider. From the videos I've seen of shuai jiao, and taking into account the requirement for competition in judo, I'd say the opposite is probably true.

    Nutriding aside, I doubt the difference is that pronounced though, both arts are similar enough and are trained in almost the same way.
    The difference [in techniques] isn't very pronounced, as you say.. The latter levels of Shuaijiao also have some groundwork, but it is more or less frowned upon. The difference lies in the training. The traditional training methods of Shuaijiao are the cake and the techniques are the icing. Jibengong, or foundation exercises, are what I was refering to. I think that a dangerous fighter is one that has trained hard in these.

    Quote Originally Posted by meng_mao
    So your point is..."man it was hard to find good MA in China. Now I've found it, and I'll do it." Ok, that's cool.
    Yup.. That basically sums it up. THANK YOU. =P

    Quote Originally Posted by meng_mao
    I don't think you really acknowledge what earlier posters were saying about staying in the Netherlands and training 'native' arts there, where they flourish. That little inconsistency plus your predilection for 'collecting' MAs just makes you seem a little off. Of course bla bla bla this is the internet bla bla bla.
    Infact, I didn't spend much time studying martial arts in my own country. I have been living in different countries around the world since I was an infant and so have been exposed to a lot of ****. And most of MA these days is ****. For every good school there are fifty schools with no redeemable qualities whatsoever. I wouldn't call it "collecting".. More like sampling. If I disagree with the teacher's approach to fighting, the students have no fighting spirit/ability, the whole system was deeply flawed from the start, et cetera I will not continue studying it.

    But I have given many things a try, including some fencing arts (I spent a year in Asia looking for someone who could teach me sword combat applications with no results). The bottom line here is that the weapons of olde have been replaced by firearms and the only things that we can truly call martial arts are those that posses both martial and art characteristics. I guess that would be something like that "Gun kata" thing in Equilibrium, if that makes any sense. The point is that it must be tried, tested, and refined on the "battlefield". Unarmed combat was never a high priority in the past and it certainly isn't now. Anyone that thinks otherwise is LARPing. Anyone who disagrees with the aforementioned statement can say hello to my telescopic baton (See my thread about using said baton in a way similar to Battoujutsu).

    That said... My interest has and will always be martial arts and since I have failed to find that mountaintop Shifu with the best of all the gongfu in the world and am utterly certain that there are none that have escaped my thorough search I will study hard and learn my Shuaiqin and Sanda, which I believe to be among the last remaining effective martial arts.

    Shuaijiao is over 4000 years olde. It has been tried, tested, and refined over that period of time. I have encountered watered down competition versions and extremely hardcore killer shuaijiao. The real masters are not fat balding men at seminars in America, nor are the ridiculously huge, muscular individuals. They are lean, mean, fighting machines, baby, and watch out.

    Things like Shaolin temple bullshit are so completely ridiculous I can't even believe that anyone buys it. Who would be better at fighting: Monks that sit in a temple preying all day that exercise a bit once in a while or trained soldiers whose sole survival depends on their combat abilities? Think about it.

    And I am out of it...

    - Maarten Sebastiaan Franks Spijker
    Last edited by MaartenSFS; 1/06/2007 10:03am at .
  4. HearWa is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/06/2007 10:39am


     Style: Sub-wrestling, mostly...

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MaartenSFS
    Oke... Where to begin? I guess I'll start here:



    Wouldn't that make him some kind of homosexual slave bitch with you as his even gayer master? I don't care who meng_mao is. He contributed absolutely nothing with his cliche comments, much like yourself. And I never said anything about my own "gongfu" so there isn't anything to prove or disprove there... Don't waste thread space, arsehole.



    I suggest the you go re-read the above post. I complained about China's lack of MA. And I already described what an MA is above. The place that I found is full of people that "simply wanted to learn to fight effectively rather than chase after delusions", which includes me. THAT IS MY FUCKING POINT AND LET ME CAPITALISE IT SO THAT EVEN YOUR MICROSCOPIC BRAIN CAN PICK IT UP THIS SECOND TIME AROUND. Way to jump into a thread without reading the intro, arsehole.

    Also, populairity has nothing to do with effectiveness. Look at TKD.



    The only thing that I want to escape from is your idiocy. And I don't give a **** if you accept me or not. Infact, it would come as an insult. Kindly cease to breathe.

    - Sincerely, Maarten Sebastiaan Franks Spijker
    ^ lol, kung fu.
  5. Lu Tze is offline

    BJJ might make you a better ground fighter, but Judo will make you a better dancer.

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    Posted On:
    1/06/2007 10:41am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MaartenSFS
    The difference [in techniques] isn't very pronounced, as you say.. The latter levels of Shuaijiao also have some groundwork, but it is more or less frowned upon. The difference lies in the training. The traditional training methods of Shuaijiao are the cake and the techniques are the icing. Jibengong, or foundation exercises, are what I was refering to. I think that a dangerous fighter is one that has trained hard in these.
    I think you're making some rather erroneous assumptions here. It's the training methods, not the techniques, that make judo and it's spiritual cousins BJJ and SAMBO so effective.
    What exactly are these exercises, and why do you feel they make so much difference? Please note that judoka are amongst the best conditioned athletes in the world.

    Shuaijiao is over 4000 years olde. It has been tried, tested, and refined over that period of time. I have encountered watered down competition versions and extremely hardcore killer shuaijiao. The real masters are not fat balding men at seminars in America, nor are the ridiculously huge, muscular individuals. They are lean, mean, fighting machines, baby, and watch out.
    I doubt what you're learning is anywhere near 4000 years old, you're straying dangerously into the "ancient deadly secrets" bullshit that's frowned upon around here, be careful. Besides older is not necessarily better, that's a very common fallacy.

    Edited: because I'm repeating myself.
    Last edited by Lu Tze; 1/06/2007 1:00pm at .
  6. Gezere is offline
    Gezere's Avatar

    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    1/06/2007 11:23am

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The difference [in techniques] isn't very pronounced, as you say.. The latter levels of Shuaijiao also have some groundwork, but it is more or less frowned upon. The difference lies in the training. The traditional training methods of Shuaijiao are the cake and the techniques are the icing. Jibengong, or foundation exercises, are what I was refering to. I think that a dangerous fighter is one that has trained hard in these.
    I greatly disagree. I know shuaijiao and crossed hands with many players and I can say with alot of experience that Judo still is way better. And like you I've been to mainland China and HK to find the mountain sifu and came up lacking. However I still love and practice Bajiquan.

    Shuaijiao is over 4000 years olde. It has been tried, tested, and refined over that period of time. I have encountered watered down competition versions and extremely hardcore killer shuaijiao. The real masters are not fat balding men at seminars in America, nor are the ridiculously huge, muscular individuals. They are lean, mean, fighting machines, baby, and watch out.
    Shuaijiao is ALLEGEDLY 4000yrs old. Even if it was I greatly doubtly doubt that its modern practice is anything like its older ones so age of an art doesn't always mean much due to the fact that they can change greatly in less than a century the way the same culture and social norms change. As fare as the "great masters" I would put money of the competive Judoka before the SJ guy. Not to mention that BJJ would completely rape them but thats not a fair comparison because groundwork isn't a SJ strong point, but I have seen Kuaijiao guys hold their own on the white and blue belt level.
    ______
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    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
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    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
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  7. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/06/2007 11:59am

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MaartenSFS
    Quite ironic, yes. Not to mention Judo. But I have worked with both now and Shuai Jiao is a lot more hardcore. The difference is almost as big as TKD and MT. I'm disappointed by a lot of things in China, but I'm glad that I came here as I am now happily married and have a successful career ahead of me. And I am Dutch. ;)
    Notice, you just started shoe chow and you can already critique it as better than judo.





    And you reek of trollism, arsebandit.



    How cliche of you. I bet you feel really good, now that you've done your duty. Good job.

    It's because of people like you that most people give up searching for real martial arts. You should praise this. DO YOU KNOW HOW DIFFICULT IT IS TO FIND SOMETHING REAL IN CHINA? FUCKING DIFFICULT.



    GO CRAWL BACK UP YOUR MOTHERS' VAGINA AND DIE IN CHILDBIRTH, YOU LITTLE TURD.

    - Maarten Sebastiaan Franks Spijker
    Let's see we get the above from a minor, yet truthful response, of
    Quote Originally Posted by meng mao
    This just reeks of martial LARPism. So badly.

    ^plus obligatory mention of use in law enforcement
    You made the law enforcement=great Martial art insinuation. You posted it is a 4,000 year old art. You made the quote "reason why people give up searching for real MA." You traveled to China when, you have good training in your own backyard.

    All comments attributed to larpers.

    If you hadn't of flew of the handle maybe I'd disagree.
    Last edited by It is Fake; 1/06/2007 12:02pm at .
  8. Doctor Z is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/06/2007 2:22pm


     Style: Muay Thai n00b

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So he travelled all the way to China to end up practicing Sanshou?

    ...When he could just have joined Ramon Dekkers' gym in NL.

    ...

    ...

    ...

    ...
  9. Dirty Rooster is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/06/2007 2:48pm


     Style: Basic Self-Defence

    1
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by MaartenSFS
    It's because of people like you that most people give up searching for real martial arts.
    Explain this please Maarten,
    surely
    1.Most people don't even start searching for 'real' martial arts.
    2.In my experience if someone is truly searching for real martial arts they don't ever stop searching.
    3.A single humorous quip on a light-hearted internet forum wouldn't stop most people searching for anything.

    But then ;
    Quote Originally Posted by MaartenSFS
    GO CRAWL BACK UP YOUR MOTHERS' VAGINA AND DIE IN CHILDBIRTH, YOU LITTLE TURD.
    Are you sure you're SFS and not JFS ??
  10. TehDeadlyDimMak is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/06/2007 4:06pm


     Style: Sanda, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    After reading this thread I'm really glad I take Judo and not Sanda... wait...damn.

    And props to Dirty Rooster for using a JFS reference. I actually miss him.
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