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  1. odd_lifter is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/02/2007 9:25am


     Style: grab & elbow the head

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    political correctness and marketing
  2. OnceLost is offline
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    Here's looking at you, squid.

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    Posted On:
    1/02/2007 11:01am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Ke?po, MMA ultra-newb

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    To say that one fighter is going to be better than another fighter based on the style of martial arts is simply ludicrous.
    I've said the EXACT same thing. See, fighters are like bagels and styles are like toppings. You have your cream cheese (TKD, because everyone has experienced it), your onion (groundfighting, because it makes you sting and some people don't like it), your tomato (aikido, because it doesn't do a lot but it adds a little color and looks good), your smoked salmon (a good striking art, because it is something of an acquired taste), and your capers (I don't know what the **** capers are).
    Some bagels are better with the toppings while others (like the cinnamon-raisin bagel) really aren't very appetizing with those toppings. And, see, some fighters are simply so good that they don't need to study an MA to turn into a delicious, healthy breakfast.

    I tried to use logic that you'd understand, but if you missed the point there...you're an idiot.
  3. OnceLost is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/02/2007 11:05am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Ke?po, MMA ultra-newb

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, JKD, the very thing! I remember playing around with a JKD guy and there was definitely something about his movements that was, shall we say, caperesque
  4. Bokfutopher is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/05/2007 6:07am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    [quote=Punisher]
    Quote Originally Posted by Bokfutopher
    You are right Royce Gracie was an excelent fighter. He won against a lot of different styles. He even won against different styles of grappling. But was it not the same Royce Gracie that just lost his last match? I might be wrong, but I do not believe Matt Hughes studied BJJ. I know he is a grappler, but not brazilian jujitsu. Royce Gracie finaly met his match, someone from a different style no doubt, and a lot stronger and faster.QUOTE]


    You sir, are an idiot. It is hard to believe that someone could be so stupid and misinformed.

    Matt Hughes studies jujistu. Specifcally he trains at Miletich Fighting Systems. Notice the jujitsu on their class schedule. http://www.mfselite.com/id15.html

    Read, watch, or listen to any interview with Matt Hughes and you will likely hear how important jujitsu is to his training. Not as fundamental as wrestling, but very important indeed.

    Secondly, you make this sound that this was the first time the mighty Royce had been vanquished. Not true.

    Thirdly. I believe all styles have merit, but it is ridculously stupid to argue that all styles have equal merit. Some styles are simply better than others. If you have a kenpo guy fight a comparable bjj guy 100 times, the bjj guy will probably win 99. And this is coming from a guy who has studied kenpo for 20 years and owns a kenpo school.

    I really hope you are not a real person. I really hope this is all just a bad dream or at least a really bad joke.
    I am glad that you know so much and that your cup is so full and over flowing. Unfortunately you apparently did not read what I wrote. I was not sure about what style he studied or any other details specificly about Matt Hughes other than he beat Royce Gracie. The only thing that I had heard about him is he westled in highschool and college. I assumed that he kept up with that style of westling. But thanks to your brilliant insight, I now know different.

    Royce Gracie had been defeated before Matt Hughes? Well no ****! We got us a regular Sherlock Holmes here.

    Royce Gracie lost for the first time in a grappling only match with another BJJ fighter/expert, Wallid Ismail. Ismail defeated Gracie with a "clock choke", approximately five minutes into the fight.

    Gracie lost for the second time by a TKO, to Kazushi Sakuraba "The Gracie Hunter". After fighting Sakuraba for 90 minutes with out water or a break, gracie had his brother throw in the towel, conceding the match to Sakuraba. I also believe Gracie broke his foot during this match.

    If he has lost other fights besides these two and the one with Matt Huhes, I have not heard about them and besides I have not been keeping up with it that much, and really dont care to. But thanks, for the heads up that Royce Gracie is only human like the rest of us and can be beaten. Some of us simpletons could not have figured that one out on our own.

    And to argue that studying a certain style is what is going to guarantee that a fighter is going to automatically win a fight is moronic. You say tomatoe I say tomato. And you believe that the style you teach is inferior to other styles, yet you still teach it. This is sort of hypocritical if you do not tell your students that you dont believe in your styles effectiveness against an assailant that may have taken BJJ. I am pretty sure you dont tell your students this, or they wouldnt stick around. What a selling point, come pay me to teach you an inferior style so if you get jumped by a BJJ practitioner you can get the holy crap beat out of you.

    Go to youtube.com and look up Kazushi Sakuraba and watch some of the clips. I am not sure what style he studies, oh I better repeat this so you can catch it, I am not sure what style he studies, but he beats the crap out of several members of the gracie family. The funny thing is he doesnt do it with a lot of grappling either. For clarification, when I say he doesnt do a lot of grappling in these clips by no means do I mean that he does not grapple at all on these clips. Yes he does grapple, so dont screw with my words and say I said he doesnt. All I can say is from these clips it sure looks like he dominates them with little or no grappling. He used spinning rear kicks, round houses to the legs, stomping on them, stricking and punching. So this mighty BJJ that everybody is talking about certainly has its weaknesses.
  5. HonkyTonkMan is offline
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    Y SO SRIUS?

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    Posted On:
    1/05/2007 6:39am

    supporting member
     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hey Bokfuckwad..


    You are contradicting yourself. Are you on any meds?
  6. prob is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/05/2007 8:46am


     Style: KARATE/KICK BOXING

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Is it just me or does blue text on a black background really not work.
  7. OnceLost is offline
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    Here's looking at you, squid.

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    Posted On:
    1/05/2007 8:59am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Ke?po, MMA ultra-newb

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Better blue than green and centered...
    "Reason is a choice. Wishes and whims are not facts, nor are they a means to discovering them. Reason is our only way to grasping reality -- it's our basic tool of survival. We are free to evade the effort of thinking, to reject reason, but we are not free to avoid the penalty of the abyss we refuse to see."
    - Terry Goodkind, "Faith of the Fallen"
  8. Hanniballistic is offline
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    By the Hoary Hand of Hoggoth.....

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    Posted On:
    1/05/2007 9:56am


     Style: JKD & Mok'bara

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    [quote=Bokfutopher]
    Quote Originally Posted by Punisher
    Go to youtube.com and look up Kazushi Sakuraba and watch some of the clips. I am not sure what style he studies, oh I better repeat this so you can catch it, I am not sure what style he studies, but he beats the crap out of several members of the gracie family. The funny thing is he doesnt do it with a lot of grappling either. For clarification, when I say he doesnt do a lot of grappling in these clips by no means do I mean that he does not grapple at all on these clips. Yes he does grapple, so dont screw with my words and say I said he doesnt. All I can say is from these clips it sure looks like he dominates them with little or no grappling. He used spinning rear kicks, round houses to the legs, stomping on them, stricking and punching. So this mighty BJJ that everybody is talking about certainly has its weaknesses.
    He trained at a wrestling gym - Takada Dojo - when he beat Royce. Which is grappling, Which makes you look like a bigger tit than usual. And he didn't beat Royce per se - Royce broke his ankle after the longest fight in modern MMA.

    So watching a few isolated clips and basing your whole fight analysis on a highlight real makes you look like a tit - again.

    If you are going to throw things into the debate it helps to actually have some idea what you are talking about. Sak beat Renzo and Royler far more convincingly than he did Royce. With grappling no less.

    give me a T..give me an I.....well, you know the rest
  9. hl1978 is offline

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    Posted On:
    1/05/2007 11:25am


     Style: Aunkai

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Elvis
    Say my wife and I have quadruplets who are all male and are identical in every way. At age 18 they all simultaneously enroll each in a different martial arts school for exaclty 12 months.

    One does BJJ
    One does TKD
    One does Aikido
    One does MMA

    Are you saying that they will all be equals? That none of the above will produce better quality fighters over the other?
    I know where you are going with this so I will play devils advocate.

    First, discarding aikido for the moment, though the below does apply to some extent.

    Would you argue that the techniques taught in each of these schools are superior to one over the other? With the exception of MMA (a ruleset not a style), we can pull out hokey techniques from both TKD (kicking people off horses) and BJJ (remember the knife/self defense stuff of BJJ).

    I would assume that you are arguing that the level of contact, intensity of the training, and frequency of sparring is more likely to be higher in certain schools/styles than others the vast majority of the time. With that we are in agreement.

    Typically when people make this argument they seem to be concentrating on the later than the former. The all martial arts are equal/good guys probably have the mindset because of the technique part rather than the fully resisting partner part.
    Last edited by hl1978; 1/05/2007 11:27am at .
  10. OnceLost is offline
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    Here's looking at you, squid.

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    Posted On:
    1/05/2007 5:08pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Ke?po, MMA ultra-newb

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The TKD guy is going to get laid more often...
    "Reason is a choice. Wishes and whims are not facts, nor are they a means to discovering them. Reason is our only way to grasping reality -- it's our basic tool of survival. We are free to evade the effort of thinking, to reject reason, but we are not free to avoid the penalty of the abyss we refuse to see."
    - Terry Goodkind, "Faith of the Fallen"
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