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  1. JohnnyCache is offline
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    All Out of Bubblegum

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    Posted On:
    2/18/2007 3:22am

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    oh **** nuck he's gonna go 51-fiddy all up accross yo' ****.
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  2. JohnnyCache is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/18/2007 3:40am

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    OH NO THAT STANCE IS SO LOW THERE'D BE NO WAY TO DOUBLE LEG!

    My Kryptonite - REVEALED!
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  3. JohnnyCache is offline
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    All Out of Bubblegum

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    Posted On:
    2/18/2007 4:00am

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    wow. Those are some medium sized beats.
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  4. new2bjj is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/18/2007 6:18pm


     Style: TKD, MT, KEMPO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The problem with having gone to West Wind, like other MacDojo's, is that you have to admit that you wasted all that time. It's pretty goddamn depressing. I just can't believe they got so expensive. I also called on CORE one time(sales call) , the guy that was there was a total prick. Imagine how someone like Bertrand Russell, the philosopher felt, when his life's work was shown to have errors in it. Still, he took it like a man. All you Bok Fu people lurking- just leave the temple- it's like pulling off a bandage- it only hurts for a little while.
  5. jdinca is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/19/2007 11:45pm


     Style: Chinese Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Nuck Chorris
    and it wouldn't be the first time I have been challenged either.

    Middletown CA

    Your time and dime baby. And I'll wing chun your ass all the way back down to westwindville!

    Nuck, if you're in Danville, the school where Bok Fu Do was originated is in Alamo Plaza. I'd be more than happy to meet with you and talk about the system. As for schools, there are good and bad schools in just about every system. You can draw your own conclusions.

    jd

    (Bok Fu lurker, peaking out of the temple)
  6. Sam Browning is offline

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    New England
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    Posted On:
    2/20/2007 10:21am

    hall of famestaff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What are the various amounts West Wind charges for its services. Please specify by plan.
  7. new2bjj is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    2/20/2007 10:57am


     Style: TKD, MT, KEMPO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    When I was 14 (1974) there was an article in "Karate Illustrated" (back when it didn't suck so bad) titled "Would you buy a used Karate Gi from this man?". In it were direct outtakes from the Tracey Kempo sales manual, which sounded an awful lot like the spiel I had heard from Bok Fu. I mentioned this at my school, and they were embaressed, but they did not deny there connection to the Traceys, who, I understand, got their whole program from the Arthur Murray dance school. AM's Dance schools would stretch out all the lessons on steps, to keep you coming back, etc. I doubt that they would reprint this article, as it would probably alienate and expose all the mcdojo's that advertise in their rag.
  8. Judomofo is offline
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    Tallahassee, FL
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    Posted On:
    2/20/2007 11:57am


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sorry I know this is old news but after looking at the myspace and all I laughed out loud at this...


    Quote Originally Posted by ReTEFed
    Bad/Ugly: (I admit West Wind has its faults, but what school doesn't)
    - major identity issues: I got really scared when one of the teachers (white boy) told me: "I was born to to be asian.) "WTF?" I agree that seeing white people, or any race of people (except some asia nationalities) rockin' northern-style Gi tops and spouting of Japanese, Chinese and Thai like they know that **** natively really disturbs me. I'm Native American and culturally Black, so it pains me to see strong Black, Latino, Native American and even white people shedding their heritage for another.

    Sort of like being Native American and trying to be Black? Shedding your Native American heritage for Black culture? Wow.. that's funny.

    Also, I think at 17 you should wait to issue challenges until you are legally an adult and the full burden of getting your ass handed to you rests solely on yourself. (So when Nuck whips the piss out of you your parent's can't sue)
  9. Sam Browning is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/20/2007 12:28pm

    hall of famestaff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by new2bjj
    When I was 14 (1974) there was an article in "Karate Illustrated" (back when it didn't suck so bad) titled "Would you buy a used Karate Gi from this man?". In it were direct outtakes from the Tracey Kempo sales manual, which sounded an awful lot like the spiel I had heard from Bok Fu. I mentioned this at my school, and they were embaressed, but they did not deny there connection to the Traceys, who, I understand, got their whole program from the Arthur Murray dance school. AM's Dance schools would stretch out all the lessons on steps, to keep you coming back, etc. I doubt that they would reprint this article, as it would probably alienate and expose all the mcdojo's that advertise in their rag.
    Do you know where we could obtain a copy of said article :)
  10. jdinca is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/20/2007 1:55pm


     Style: Chinese Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Nuck Chorris
    It is rare that I go down to the Bay Area these days. Just really busy with a lot of irons in the fire. I appreciate the argument that there are different levels of quality from school to school within an organization. Since I don't think it is very likely that I will get there anytime soon, perhaps you could answer the questions online instead. I am sure others would llke more insight into your organization as well.

    Exactly what sets the Danville school apart from the others?
    Does the West Wind chain still hold tournaments only within its own organzation?
    What is your pricing structure at the Danville location?
    Is this pricing structure different from the other schools?
    Is there a contract for enrollment? If yes, then what are the terms? If the contract is optional, then what is the cost difference for a student wants to enroll monthly as opposed to the contract?
    Belt testing fees and frequency?
    Last but not least, how is your curriculum in Danville different than the curriculum that is being taught at the other locations?

    As a side note: I have a good friend that got his BB from the WW school in Napa many many moons ago. There is also a local BB that got his from the WW school as well. Nothing wrong with their stuff. It is basic Tracy Kempo and there is nothing wrong with that.provided that you like forms and dead pattern style self-defense drills. These two had long since left the WW organization and I was told by them the break was due to many reasons. Chiefly being the commercial pressure that they put on the coaches. The second reason being that the chain was watering down the material and recruiting younger and younger clientelle to turn and teach classes.

    Thoughts?
    What sets the school in Alamo apart is that it is owned by the man who developed Bok Fu Do back in the late '60s, early '70s, GM Richard Lee. He received his 10th degree BB from GM Al Tracy in '94, holds a 5th degree BB in TKD and has been recognized by the Republic of China as an 8th degree GM in Kuoshu, the only non-asian to be given such distinction. The name of the school is Richard Lee's East - West Kung Fu. He has a vested interest in keeping the standards high, given that his name is directly attached to it. No matter how hard you try, there is going to be some dilution the farther away you get from the original. FYI, we have NO connection to West-Winds, East-Winds, or any other Bok Fu school other than KO Karate in San Jose. The founders of those schools may have been former students of Richard Lee's but they broke their ties with him many years ago and have not kept up with any of the changes, or improvements, nor have they been part of the standardization that happens annually. I have no idea what they're teaching, how close it is to the real system of Bok Fu Do, what changes have been made, or the standards utilized by those that teach it.

    I have no idea what West-Winds does as far as tournaments.

    I have no idea what other Bok Fu schools charge. We have several memberships of varying length, that also include lessons with a private instructor. What seperates them from contracts is that if a student is going to out for a while for whatever reason, they can put their membership on hold. I.e., a four month membership is for four months of instruction, not four calendar months. In addition, we are a full time school and there are no limits on the number of classes a student can take during their enrollment.

    We test on a regular basis. We hold a "belt board" monthly. We also test very frequently in private lessons for belt advancement. We're not going to hold a student back if they're ready to test and the next belt board is a month away. There is no fee for testing.

    As for your last question, all I can say is that we've had transfers from other schools that purport to teach Bok Fu and the techniques and quality of movement can be quite variable. Being a kenpo system, there are a number of variations on a theme out there. A green belt from one of those other schools transferred here and it took 18 months before he was at what is considered green belt level in this school. He is not unique in that respect. Given my lack of knowledge of what those other schools teach, I can't get more specific.

    As for the reasons why your friend left WW in Napa, I'm sorry to hear that. Although ours is a commercial school, we feel that the way to attract new students is with consistent, high standards and not diluting the system to make it easier for students to advance, thereby putting a pair of golden arches on the side of the building.

    Here's our website. It's not totally fleshed out yet, but it's getting there:

    www.RichardLeesEastWest.com

    My sole purpose of even being involved in this thread is that the flaming of West Winds, East Winds, whoever, has been painted with a broad brush and has imho, unfairly denigrated the entire system. I'd be happy to answer any other questions as best as I can.
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