Wheeler's Isshinryu

**BackFistMonkey** · Posted On: 6/18/2007 12:13am

Originally Posted by unoitwks

wheelers rox

Vid Link please .

**Boyd** · Posted On: 6/18/2007 3:15pm

Trolling aside, I'd just like to throw in that, during my time in Isshinryu, I recall hearing a lot of vague, unspecified negative murmurings about Alan Wheeler. There implications that he ran a McDojo never really expounded upon, and if he was brought up it was never more than a cautious "ehhh...."

So what does that mean? Probably nothing. The folks badmouthing him taught me to punch people in the foot for crissakes. However, given Isshinryu's rich, flavorful blend of combining shameless profiteering with solipsistic, mastubatory fantasy fighting, coupled with the fact that he's a 10th Dan teaching pressure point fighting, multipled by the odds that a man who began martial arts training in his 40's could achieve physical (let alone technical) mastery in a martial art to the point of attaining grandmaster status is his 60's, divided by Sigma notation and triangulated by the inverse of the hypotenuse=Alan Wheeler is probably full of ****.

**Boyd** · Posted On: 6/18/2007 3:16pm

Or was. lol he's dead

**BackFistMonkey** · Posted On: 6/18/2007 3:25pm

Originally Posted by Boyd

So what does that mean? Probably nothing. The folks badmouthing him taught me to punch people in the foot for crissakes. However, given Isshinryu's rich, flavorful blend of combining shameless profiteering with solipsistic, mastubatory fantasy fighting, coupled with the fact that he's a 10th Dan teaching pressure point fighting, multipled by the odds that a man who began martial arts training in his 40's could achieve physical (let alone technical) mastery in a martial art to the point of attaining grandmaster status is his 60's, divided by Sigma notation and triangulated by the inverse of the hypotenuse=Alan Wheeler is probably full of ****.

So a 7 in striking maybe a little high in his review ?

**MrGalt** · Posted On: 6/18/2007 7:24pm

Boyd,
I didn't meet Mr. Wheeler until he was 78 I think. At that time his health was still good and I thought he had good katas and punches. He taught me how to hit a speed bag just a couple of years before he died when he was in his 80s. As for his other physical abilities, I recall hearing (no, I don't have video) that he could squat 600 pounds when he was 60 years old. From what I saw of his abilities nearly 20 years later I'm inclined to believe it, so physical/technical mastery in his 40s or 50s doesnt' seem so far-fetched to me. Isshinryu isn't Drunken Monkey Kung Fu after all. Could he kick people in the head? I don't know, but kicking people in the head wasn't part of the curriculum. The tenth degree black belt as I mentioned in the review does not distinguish physical ability in Isshinryu. Mr. Wheeler's tenth dan was certainly NOT in pressure point fighting.

I never learned to punch people in the foot in my time in Isshinryu, but BFM, if you'll notice Boyd says that Mr. Wheeler's detractors were the ones who taught him to punch people in the foot. Also, I'm going to guess Boyd came from an IIKA school whose instructors learned from Harold Long. Boyd has mentioned "lineage wars" in other posts.

The Isshinryu schools I have seen were much less interested in profiteering than the TKD and Ke?po schools I've attended in the past. As for the "fantasy fighting," Boyd uses language wonderfully, but he's really referring to nothing more than the status quo for Japanese martial arts practice.

**Boyd** · Posted On: 6/18/2007 11:36pm

Originally Posted by MrGalt

Boyd,
I didn't meet Mr. Wheeler until he was 78 I think. At that time his health was still good and I thought he had good katas and punches. He taught me how to hit a speed bag just a couple of years before he died when he was in his 80s. As for his other physical abilities, I recall hearing (no, I don't have video) that he could squat 600 pounds when he was 60 years old. From what I saw of his abilities nearly 20 years later I'm inclined to believe it, so physical/technical mastery in his 40s or 50s doesnt' seem so far-fetched to me. Isshinryu isn't Drunken Monkey Kung Fu after all. Could he kick people in the head? I don't know, but kicking people in the head wasn't part of the curriculum. The tenth degree black belt as I mentioned in the review does not distinguish physical ability in Isshinryu. Mr. Wheeler's tenth dan was certainly NOT in pressure point fighting.

Just so we're clear, my previous post was pure speculation created solely to encourage dialogue. It's possible--but highly unlikely--a 60 year old man could squat 600 pounds, for example.

My concern is that technical and physical masteries are things that must be experienced and felt firsthand, and the odds that a "Master" of any sort could develop these skills when his strength is in rapid decline are very, very slim opposed to the odds that Master Wheeler's promotion was political. As a point of reference, Royce Gracie is a 5th Dan, inspite of his UFC belts, massive organizations, and Pride fights.

Originally Posted by MrGalk

I never learned to punch people in the foot in my time in Isshinryu, but BFM, if you'll notice Boyd says that Mr. Wheeler's detractors were the ones who taught him to punch people in the foot. Also, I'm going to guess Boyd came from an IIKA school whose instructors learned from Harold Long. Boyd has mentioned "lineage wars" in other posts.

I probably went to the worst martial arts school in the universe. The training was idiotic, the classes long, full of insincere shows of clumsy "respect", and the techniques, when presented to the whole of Bullshido's membership, were unofficially voted "the worst thing anyone here learned." But we didn't have lineage wars. That's the one thing, they almost never bitched about other schools in class.

By the way, I attended Radunz Isshinryu in Waterford, MI under Mark Radunz, a 6th dan under Sherman Harill.

Boyd uses language wonderfully

This is how you get on my good books.

This week I'm going to do a writeup of my time in Isshinryu and my experiences with Mark and Sherman. It's long overdue and in the event I become friends with a warlock who lets me travel through time and talk to my younger self, it'd be easier to hand him (me?) a printout rather than explain the situation to me (him?) longhand. Sorry if this post is riddled with typos. I'm on Ambien which, at its worse, combines nasty elements of drunken stupors and hallucinogenics to make you fall asleep.

**Boyd** · Posted On: 6/20/2007 10:04pm

Originally Posted by unoitwks

Wheelers has some of the best instructors such as chuck reynolds who is equiped with the knowledge of the isshinryu karate style point fighting and grappling. Wheelers also has a great staff such as danny potts who is an expert with working with children and an excellent fighter, Jim Alley who teaches a plillipine stick fighting system of arnis and a nerve center pressure point which was passed down by instructor allen wheeler. The school has many black belts which teach fighting grappling kata weapons and basic skills such as what to do if a stranger comes up to you. The dojo has two USA karate team members who have one many medals. The school is founded by a man who whole life was devoted to christ his family and his dojo. Allen Wheeler used his school for gods glory and nobody elses. At Wheelers the underlying fact in my belief is that we do everything whether it be kata point fighting or simply just streching for the glory of god. I know that Wheelers is a great aptmospere for whether you are 5 or 85. Wheelers has made my life and changed my life.

Whoa, Jesus, just noticed this. Is Wheeler's a Karate for Christ school?

**hamilton01** · Posted On: 3/10/2013 2:28pm

Originally Posted by unoitwks

Allen Wheeler used his school for gods glory and nobody elses. At Wheelers the underlying fact in my belief is that we do everything whether it be kata point fighting or simply just streching for the glory of god. I know that Wheelers is a great aptmospere for whether you are 5 or 85. Wheelers has made my life and changed my life.

Mr Wheeler may have served the lord when he was here on earth, but let me tell you the Wheelers karate school in Powell, TN does not serve the lord, nor the sport of Karate. This school cares about winning at all costs they teach their students to mame, or "take out" other kids at tournaments in order to win.

Let me be very specific, I am not talking about adults, or even teens I am talking about 6 and 7 year old children being taught to go out there and take out other 6 and 7 year olds so they can not physically compete.

I have been to three different tournaments where Wheelers group would show up, and I have heard them instruct the kids to "be aggressive," and "take em out."

I watched a 7 yr old boy who was a "purple" belt from Wheelers kick a tiny, 6 year old, green belt girl directly in the face so hard he lifter her up off the mat, and she fell onto her back and neck. The poor kid could not breathe, and they had to stop the bout, and get people over there to take care of her.

The instructors from this self proclaimed "dojo of Christ" gets up walks over to the student who is sitting on the sidelines while the girl getting help, and tells him "good job, don't let up, be aggressive, get them."

I approached the instructor and asked him "did I just hear you tell your kid good job for kicking that girl in the face, and to keep it up, and be aggressive?"

At first he tried to lie and said "oh no I would never say that." I said man I was standing right there I heard every word you said.

Then he said "well I said be aggressive, but I didn't mean to be aggressive I just meant, you know to show aggression."

I told the guy" this is a tournament for 6 and 7 year olds kids, they are not here to hurt each other, they are here to learn, and have fun not to take each other out."

The instructor yells at me, and says "well if our kids don't take them out they might beat us, and we didn't come to lose, we came to win trophies."

I asked at what costs, and then told him my kids school didn't come to "take anyone out." He then stomped off, and I thought it was over until I saw him talking to a younger instructor with dark hair wearing a black and red Adidas jump suit with matching red headphones.

The next thing I know the younger instructor along with another adult instructor starts shouting at the top of their lungs to their students "BE AGGRESSIVE, BE AGGRESSIVE" GET THEM ALL!! This continued through the whole event, and their kids literally "took out." two other kids.

I pulled my 6 yr old out because he is not there to hurt someone, or to get hurt.

Look I know at a tournament it's going to be tough, but there is a difference in tough, and going out there, and trying to "take out" a 6 year old kid, and I believe if this Mr Wheeler were still alive he would feel the same way.

I am not aware of what they "teach" in the classroom, but what is taught in the classroom is reflected in the real world, and usually at the tournaments. I would never want my kid to be taught to injure someone else over a trophy. I would never congratulate a student for making another child cry, nor would I tell my child to be aggressive toward another competitor, you can go to a tournament, compete, and have fun without beating someone half to death.

BTW we have been in over 40 tournaments with our 2 kids in the last 4 years. I competed in tournaments as well when I was a kid. The reason I am leaving this review is because after witnessing this today I came home, and it was still on my mind so I did a Google search for them, and found their website WHEELERSKARATE.COM then I found this glowing review, and I thought I would share my experience with them, and how they act in public.

**MrGalt** · Posted On: 3/10/2013 2:55pm

Originally Posted by hamilton01

Mr Wheeler may have served the lord when he was here on earth, but let me tell you the Wheelers karate school in Powell, TN does not serve the lord, nor the sport of Karate. This school cares about winning at all costs they teach their students to mame, or "take out" other kids at tournaments in order to win.

Let me be very specific, I am not talking about adults, or even teens I am talking about 6 and 7 year old children being taught to go out there and take out other 6 and 7 year olds so they can not physically compete.

I have been to three different tournaments where Wheelers group would show up, and I have heard them instruct the kids to "be aggressive," and "take em out."

I watched a 7 yr old boy who was a "purple" belt from Wheelers kick a tiny, 6 year old, green belt girl directly in the face so hard he lifter her up off the mat, and she fell onto her back and neck. The poor kid could not breathe, and they had to stop the bout, and get people over there to take care of her.

The instructors from this self proclaimed "dojo of Christ" gets up walks over to the student who is sitting on the sidelines while the girl getting help, and tells him "good job, don't let up, be aggressive, get them."

I approached the instructor and asked him "did I just hear you tell your kid good job for kicking that girl in the face, and to keep it up, and be aggressive?"

At first he tried to lie and said "oh no I would never say that." I said man I was standing right there I heard every word you said.

Then he said "well I said be aggressive, but I didn't mean to be aggressive I just meant, you know to show aggression."

I told the guy" this is a tournament for 6 and 7 year olds kids, they are not here to hurt each other, they are here to learn, and have fun not to take each other out."

The instructor yells at me, and says "well if our kids don't take them out they might beat us, and we didn't come to lose, we came to win trophies."

I asked at what costs, and then told him my kids school didn't come to "take anyone out." He then stomped off, and I thought it was over until I saw him talking to a younger instructor with dark hair wearing a black and red Adidas jump suit with matching red headphones.

The next thing I know the younger instructor along with another adult instructor starts shouting at the top of their lungs to their students "BE AGGRESSIVE, BE AGGRESSIVE" GET THEM ALL!! This continued through the whole event, and their kids literally "took out." two other kids.

I pulled my 6 yr old out because he is not there to hurt someone, or to get hurt.

Look I know at a tournament it's going to be tough, but there is a difference in tough, and going out there, and trying to "take out" a 6 year old kid, and I believe if this Mr Wheeler were still alive he would feel the same way.

I am not aware of what they "teach" in the classroom, but what is taught in the classroom is reflected in the real world, and usually at the tournaments. I would never want my kid to be taught to injure someone else over a trophy. I would never congratulate a student for making another child cry, nor would I tell my child to be aggressive toward another competitor, you can go to a tournament, compete, and have fun without beating someone half to death.

BTW we have been in over 40 tournaments with our 2 kids in the last 4 years. I competed in tournaments as well when I was a kid. The reason I am leaving this review is because after witnessing this today I came home, and it was still on my mind so I did a Google search for them, and found their website WHEELERSKARATE.COM then I found this glowing review, and I thought I would share my experience with them, and how they act in public.

Mr. Hamilton,

For the sake of your children, I encourage you to stick around this site a little while, learn the message that lies at the heart of Bullshido.net, and then read the review and the surrounding discussion again, and pay attention to the space between the lines. To put it bluntly, this is NOT a glowing review, and I was encouraged not to return to Wheeler's after writing it. I never did.

I am, however, troubled by your notion that touch-stop karate tournaments somehow resemble "the real world" or that in "the real world" aggression isn't exactly what one needs to prevail.

You wouldn't believe what kids of the same age are doing to one another elsewhere in kyokushin and judo schools. To suggest that what happens at point karate tournaments in East Tennessee constitutes "beating someone half to death" suggests that you are not in the least prepared to endure or submit your children to worthwhile training or competition.

Mods, feel free to whack this post if it's too far afield of a proper school discussion.