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  1. Gumby is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/21/2006 1:22am


     Style: Brazilian Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Hooks?

    Greetings, after many years I've finally ventured into this forum.

    I've finally started my crosstraining in Muay Thai, now that my gym has finally gotten a class underweigh. I've done a few classes previously with the same guys teaching it now, we were just never able to be consistent about it. After adding everything up, I suppose you could say I've had about as much experience as someone who trained for 2x a week for about 3 months.

    Now, Im starting to get the jist of things and I've got a good understanding (as good as someone with 3 months experience can have) of my jabs, crosses, knees, elbows and my kicks are working quite well. Two of the harder techniques to work into my repetoire are my hooks and uppercuts, so lets start off slowly with the hook.

    My wrists and ankles are the only joints in my body that arent flexible (I blame hockey) so I feel a good amount of pain in my wrists when I throw a hard left hook (and this is with wraps and 16oz gloves). Im not sure if this is common or if my wrists just need to be toughened up.

    My understanding of the hook is that your hand doesnt extend past your elbow, but now where should your shoulder feel when you're throwing it? (i.e. is your hand trailing your shoulder, in line with, or ahead of it) It never feels like I can generate a whole lot of power when Im throwing a hook, certainly not to the extent of my cross. When I throw it it kinda feels like its just a little bit stronger than my jab because I cant get my body into it. Any tips or suggestions would be appreciated.

    I guess I can officially say that Im a mixed martial artist. My coach may have me jump into a few mma shows just for experience, but ultimately before I fight pro MMA I would like to do a couple of kickboxing/muay thai bouts to work on my standup alone
  2. alex is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/21/2006 3:26am

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    when you throw the hook make sure to get your whole body moving into it. when you are shadowboxing try really exaggerating the movement- your right foot should be up on the ball of the foot and by the end of the punch should be pointing to you right side, almost pointing behind you in fact. coming from the floor upwards first your foot turns, then your hips, and then your shoulders, and it all pulls your arm across. and remember that your head moves in the direction of the hook, not away, or left out like a beacon.
  3. slideyfoot is offline
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    Artemis BJJ Co-Founder/Instructor

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    Posted On:
    12/21/2006 3:38am

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     Artemis BJJ | Brazilian Jiu Jitsu in Bristol Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Gumby
    My wrists and ankles are the only joints in my body that arent flexible (I blame hockey) so I feel a good amount of pain in my wrists when I throw a hard left hook (and this is with wraps and 16oz gloves). Im not sure if this is common or if my wrists just need to be toughened up.
    I've often had the same problem, though thats largely because my punching sucks. However, I did get a useful tip earlier this year (may or may not be relevant to you), which was to keep my elbow low as I throw the hook. Seems to have helped wrist positioning. Then again, you mention its just the left, so presumably no pain when throwing a right hook?
  4. alex is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/21/2006 4:00am

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     Style: Muay Thai

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    how does keeping your elbow low help the pain? also, keeping your elbow low is the opposite of what ive been taught, at the moment of impact your forearm should be parallel with the ground
  5. slideyfoot is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/21/2006 4:10am

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     Artemis BJJ | Brazilian Jiu Jitsu in Bristol Style: BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex
    how does keeping your elbow low help the pain? also, keeping your elbow low is the opposite of what ive been taught, at the moment of impact your forearm should be parallel with the ground
    I probably should have said lower, and I'm referring more to the lead up rather than the moment of impact. I previously had a habit of bringing my elbow up high when throwing a hook, which resulted in bad wrist positioning, especially when working the heavy bag (focus mitts seem very forgiving on mistakes like that). Starting off the hook with the elbow lower seemed to help me with getting the technique right, or at least reducing pain due to (I hope) better wrist position.
  6. Asriel is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/21/2006 6:03am

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     Style: Muay Thai (BJJ hiatus)

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I was constantly berated for having my elbow too low when hooking. As Alex said, it should be parallel with the ground. Gumby have you tried hooking with your hand turned 90 degrees?


    Like this:



    I've got seriously fucked wrists and can only hook like this. If I try it the other way I get pain shooting through my wrist and arm on impact.
    " The reason elite level MMAists don't fight with aikido is the same reason elite level swimmers don't swim with their lips." - Virus

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  7. octaviousbp is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/21/2006 7:38am


     Style: Muay Thai

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    A trick that might help you visualize a proper hook is to imagine a string attached to your hooking elbow and lead knee (in the case of a lead hook), so when the knee moves, the elbow does too, and vice-versa. This will help your muscle memory train proper hook mechanics, and get your body into the hook.

    A traditional hook has the hooking arm bent at 90 degrees, and parallel with the ground. The guideline I use is a horizontal fist for hooks at 90 and inside, and a vertical fist for hooks outside of 90 (ie: reaching or open hooks). These are more common in Muay Thai, as they are less powerful, but useful for setting up lowline attacks.

    My recommendation for wrist pain is not to "punch through it". Have your instructor check your form on the heavy bag. If the pain is still occuring, stop. Try again a couple days later, and see if the pain holds off a little longer. If that's the case, then it could simply be an issue of conditioning a new impact movement, and you can repeat this drill until you are hooking comfortably throughout the duration of a round. If pain keeps occurs after a certain amount of hooks every time, and your instructor is pleased with your form, then I would recommend speaking with a sports doctor... obviously preference given to one with experience in dealing with boxers.
  8. eyebeams is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/21/2006 7:44am


     Style: Kickboxing/Grappling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    People sometimes get in the habit of whipping their arm out then tightening it fast because it feels good and powerful, even though it isn't. They even get so good at this that it's hard for a casual coach to find out. See if you aren't letting it drift out a bit much before impact. If you are your hand will actually impact on an angle, which is bad.
  9. Judah Maccabee is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/21/2006 7:48am

    supporting memberhall of fameBullshido Newbie
     Style: Krav / (Kick)Boxing / BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've always been taught the vertical-fist hook as well.

    Similar to throwing a thai kick, you can usually get excellent power off a lead hook by taking a small step angled to the outside, which helps you get coiled up for the strike. Alternatively, throw it after a 1-2 combo. Another good opportunity to throw it with good power/timing is bobbing and weaving after they throw their own hook and retaliating with one of your own. Again, the idea is that you have to coil up your body so you can snap out the punch. It's easier to do it with the cross because your angled stance and/or your initial jab allows your body to rotate so that you can counter-rotate and throw the cross. With the hook, it's not as easy to setup, but the principle is the same.

    In terms of positioning, you basically want your arm at 90, almost like you were flexing your bicep to show off. Now rotate your shoulder so that your tricep is facing behind you rather than facing the floor. Your power is predominately going to come from your body torquing around and slamming your fist into them rather than arm-punching. Just be careful you don't let your arm dip as a windup before you throw the punch - it's a tell that you're going to do it and it doesn't improve the power.

    You could look at doing some wrist/grip conditioning to try to strengthen that area. Hell, try holding a pushup position on your knuckles or the flats of your knuckles if you can't do that yet. Do it on a mat, and don't even go through the pushup motion; just hold yourself up on your knuckles or flats and let it take the load.

    Out of curiousity, how do you feel about your uppercuts?
  10. PirateJon is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/21/2006 9:52am

    supporting member
     Style: MT/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    vert vs horizon is a matter of range I think.

    taking a small step angled to the outside, which helps you get coiled up for the strike.
    Telegraph. I would not do this. you shouldn't step at all. It's all torque. also I was told not to try to really load up on a hook. Think of it in the combo. 1-2-3. after the 2, you rotate back and bring your arm down. The closer, the more vertical your fist is.

    I think the movement is similar to an elbow strike but I'm new to those.
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