systema-spetznaz connection?

**OnceLost** · Posted On: 12/21/2006 7:59am

You've answered your own question with that last post...

Edit - you posted before I did...make that your second-to-last post.

**Gezere** · Posted On: 12/21/2006 9:03am

Originally Posted by jaroge

Does anybody know if there is any evidence to corroborate the claim that Systema is taught to Spetznaz, special forces or any military outfit?

I think that it might have actually been taught to Russian Military at one point but to date I have not met one Russian soldier that knew alot about it. They mostly site Cambo, Karate, Judo, and Boxing for their MA training.

Also if there is any proof of Ryabko's claim to be a russian military officer, Spetnaz colonel no less?

I haven't see any concrete proof but I think he is legit. Why? I don't know just a gut feeling.

I am no expert but have read extensively on Special forces. From what I gather they look for super fit extremely self motivated types. Ryabko's waist line doesn't exactly jive with that vibe.

To be fair, Ryabko is a FORMER soldier and not active. My uncle was SF when he was in the Army and he no longer looks like the ripped physical specimen he was then. Vladmir still has a good build on him that looks more like a soldier.

Also, Spec warriors tend to focus very little on h2h as they are armed all the time and what little they do is mainly for teaching aggressive behaviour as much as it is teaching technique. Just my opinion, but not an idle one....

This is true for the US military but not so much the Russians. The Russians were one of the first to make a great effort in specifically developing a MA for their military that developed a warrior mindset and was above all else effective. Also there is a higher risk of getting into a H2H situation in close quarters even if you are armed. So it good to have a solid plan B, which is something we are getting in line with.

**jaroge** · Posted On: 12/21/2006 10:32am

Thanks LordAsia. You may be right, but I'm still a skeptic, reiks of bullshido to me.

**StinkyFlower** · Posted On: 12/21/2006 10:47am

Jaroge,

As you pointed out it doesn't really make much sence for special forces to spend a lot of time on hand to hand combat as they are armed. Also, since they most likely are strong and fast to begin with they can rely more and brute force and reflexes then us average Joes. I'm sure they can learn what they need from any basic boxing & wrestling style. No real need for their art to be more then that (and will probably mostly be used as a physical drill anyway).

It's hard to me to understand why people who wants to learn hand to hand arts look to military men (as military men are trained for armed conflict and to fight in groups). Not that I would want to fight a special forces person in hand to hand combat but that's because they're strong, fast, used to pain and determined. Not because I think their technique would be necessarily be superior.

It wouldn't surprise me if special forces uses systema as a training method, that doesn't make systema a superior (or more interesting) art in my mind. It simply shows that systema is a basic self defense system (like most other arts would be as well)

**OnceLost** · Posted On: 12/21/2006 11:09am

Systema has basic self defense principles PLUS whips, chains, and man-boobs in a hottub. What else could you want in a martial art?

**M1K3** · Posted On: 12/21/2006 11:22am

Originally Posted by jaroge

If you don't care than why are you here? this topic fits right in if the man is full of ****, just wanted to know. Someone in one of the posts on the subject stated that Ryabko's a respected combat instructor in Russia which I find hard to beleive, though I have zero systema experience so I can't really say either way.

Actually it was an attempt at humor. It obviously failed. You asked a kind of open ended question and I gave a flip answer.

As the thread developed it got more interesting. From what I know having been a Marine a looong time ago we learned very little h2h. It was all weapons based. Primaraly marksmanship with bayonet fighting (pugel sticks are really cool, this was 1971 and we trained alive back then.) with a little knife fighting. As we were told only a dumbass commie would lose his rifle in combat.