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  1. Feryk is offline

    Boneheaded Optimist

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    Posted On:
    12/18/2006 11:51am

    supporting member
     Style: Wado Kai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm actually quite surprised the wrestling team didn't get together as a group and beat the living **** outta this idiot. Then it would have been over.

    That's how things got handled when I was in school.
    Quote Originally Posted by pauli
    i was once told that "do" means wrecking people's **** for your own philosophical betterment.

    Quote Originally Posted by melvin_peebles
    I could be mistaking dumbness for delusion. I'll have to go dig out my DSM IV. It's great to have stumbled upon this site. The rich fauna and flora of mental dysfunction that exists in the martial arts is amazing. It's like the Galapagos.
  2. MrGalt is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/18/2006 4:03pm


     Style: Seidokaikan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That's the other big problem. Modern culture has thoroughly indoctrinated children and for that matter adults with the idea that you never solve your own problem, never punish those who trespass against you. You refer anything and everything to other people who were arbitrarily placed above you without your consent, and then let those people handle it.
  3. leere_form is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/18/2006 4:35pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That's the other big problem. Modern culture has thoroughly indoctrinated children and for that matter adults with the idea that you never solve your own problem, never punish those who trespass against you. You refer anything and everything to other people who were arbitrarily placed above you without your consent, and then let those people handle it.
    what means this "solving your own problem?"

    like, if someone calls me a sissy in a mean way (or sticks their finger anywhere near my ass), i punch them in the face?

    as opposed to say, filing a harassment charge and having an authority figure give them a stern talking-to?

    how do you stop "vigilante justice" from getting out of hand, then? is vigilante justice even a problem, or is it just as good as the justice decided in the courts?

    your paper is due in my mailbox friday. =P
  4. Feryk is offline

    Boneheaded Optimist

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    Posted On:
    12/18/2006 5:25pm

    supporting member
     Style: Wado Kai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by leere_form
    what means this "solving your own problem?"

    like, if someone calls me a sissy in a mean way (or sticks their finger anywhere near my ass), i punch them in the face?

    as opposed to say, filing a harassment charge and having an authority figure give them a stern talking-to?

    how do you stop "vigilante justice" from getting out of hand, then? is vigilante justice even a problem, or is it just as good as the justice decided in the courts?

    your paper is due in my mailbox friday. =P
    Are you asking these questions just to see your own words on the computer screen?:eusa_doh:

    As with anything, a little common sense goes a long way. In this case, you will have a wrestling team/program either shut down or irretreveably humiliated because of the actions of one asshole (pardon the pun), and a team full of lawyers and administrators.

    IF, however, the wrestling team had solved the problem in house, then they could've all kept at least a modicum of their own dignity intact, and sent a very clear message to the idiot in question. Clean, neat, and over.

    No one is saying that the wrestling team gang rape this guy. It's about a reasonable response.
    Quote Originally Posted by pauli
    i was once told that "do" means wrecking people's **** for your own philosophical betterment.

    Quote Originally Posted by melvin_peebles
    I could be mistaking dumbness for delusion. I'll have to go dig out my DSM IV. It's great to have stumbled upon this site. The rich fauna and flora of mental dysfunction that exists in the martial arts is amazing. It's like the Galapagos.
  5. leere_form is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/18/2006 5:44pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Reasonable response is good. I'm mostly just wondering what kind of "reasonable response" is being suggested.

    The wrestling team beats him up? Or the coach says something to him, maybe throws him off the team? Or you take him to court?

    These are very different ways of dealing with the issue. Taking something like this to court might not be necessary, but that begs the question as to what else you can and should do about it, if not seeking legal action.

    Basically, essentially, what I'm getting at is that you have to have some system, some control, on violence. Not everyone can enforce what they think justice should be.

    Otherwise, without some kind of rule of law and accepted authority, you have a mobocracy where either 1. the strong individual overpowers the weak or 2. the weak band together to overpower the strong.

    and that may very well be the case, no matter how you slice it. I don't know. But saying that they should take this kid out and stone him, or the modern equivalent, seems to ignore the possible consequences of letting everyone "solve their own problems" that way.
  6. Feryk is offline

    Boneheaded Optimist

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    Posted On:
    12/18/2006 6:43pm

    supporting member
     Style: Wado Kai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    No one is ignoring anything. I understand that you are saying there are people who will take the concept of self policing too far, and I agree that this can and will happen from time to time.

    However, is it not possible to have a society of people where the rule of law does NOT have to be about the state controlling each and every response to a slight or wrong?

    I'm not American, but I thought that the concept of individual rights and freedoms was a central tenet of the Constitution there, isn't it? All I'm saying is that most disputes (such as an oil checking idiot wrestler), can and SHOULD be resolved by the parties in question. In this case, a collective beatdown would solve the problem, the idiot would heal, and all would be well.

    Now, IF the wrestling team was a tad more enthusiastic than they should've been, and they end up killing the guy (or maiming him permanently), then obviously that would be going too far, and the lawyers, etc. would be necessary.

    Instead, authorities got involved, did what they do, and now the whole thing is a major news story. This will cause the already injured parties even further injury. The kid in question is facing a possible life sentence. Granted, the odds of this happening are slim, but I'll bet his defense will be so expensive that his parents are probably finished financially.

    SO instead of the wrestler in question being punished, and everyone else moving on, NOW the parents of the wrestler are being publically humiliated by their son's actions, and financially devasted by his defense. The coach is going to be vilified publically, and probably fired. The entire wrestling team is going to be embarrassed and humiliated. The school will have a bad reputation, and will cancel the wrestling program in an effort to have some damage control. So kids who have NO connection this event will be deprived of the opportunity to engage in a sport that promotes (normally), physical fitness, skill development, self esteem and discipline.

    All because the coach was a moron, and the wrestler thought he was being funny.

    Seems like everyone ends up paying with the system we have now. But 'justice' is served?
    Quote Originally Posted by pauli
    i was once told that "do" means wrecking people's **** for your own philosophical betterment.

    Quote Originally Posted by melvin_peebles
    I could be mistaking dumbness for delusion. I'll have to go dig out my DSM IV. It's great to have stumbled upon this site. The rich fauna and flora of mental dysfunction that exists in the martial arts is amazing. It's like the Galapagos.
  7. Thaiboxerken is offline
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    Genius

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    Posted On:
    12/18/2006 8:05pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kru-MuayThai,GJJ-Blue

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sorry, but a coach that sticks his fingers in people's butts against their will should be in prison.
    "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." – Voltaire.
  8. Mr. Mantis is offline
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    One Ambulance, Eleven Cops...

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    Posted On:
    12/18/2006 8:17pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's called "behavior modification" Since the first 24 ***** wrestlers didn't bother to do ****, this is what happens. We now have all these "victims" (pussies) Who didn't have the wherewithal (guts) to fight back.

    If the first guy he did this to flipped from a wrestling match to a fight, and justified it with "****** stuck his finger up my ass!" we would not be here today reveling at tax dollars spent to prosecute this asshole.
    “We are surrounded by warships and don’t have time to talk. Please pray for us.” — One Somali Pirate.
  9. Shaolin Bushido is offline
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    Sense Offender

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    Posted On:
    12/18/2006 9:25pm

    supporting member
     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by HANKtheTANK
    he must be a real good wrestler tho...to be constantly puttin his teammates into the same move over and over again
    Either that or they like it and make it easy for him!
    Familiarity breeds Contempt

    There ain't a right way to do wrong or a wrong way to do right! Joe Frazier

    Citizens should not fear their governments; governments should fear their citizens.
  10. MrGalt is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/19/2006 12:19pm


     Style: Seidokaikan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Wow, I didn't think anybody would take that much exception to my notion that the wrestlers should solve their own problem.
    It seems like as a whole we've all agreed that this "penetrative act" was probably a particularly sadistic bullying tactic. If he were beating the other kids up and bloodying their noses, the damage would be obvious and the wrestlers wouldn't really need to report him as the evidence would speak for itself. Instead he did something sexual (yes, I'm going to go out on a limb and define this as sexual) that he figured nobody would report. Somebody did, and now it's blown way out of proportion, with bad consequences for several people.
    I like Mr. Mantis's suggestion, but it doesn't even have to be as extreme as beating him down or really injuring him. These are two dozen guys, right? Athletes, right? I can look at this kid and tell you that he wasn't in the top weight class. 24 guys, or half of them, or a quarter of them, could have squashed this little punk like a horde of zombies and...hell, I don't know, farted on his head until he got the point that if you are an asshole to others, others get to be assholes to you.
    If he doesn't get the point, put Drano in his gatorade or something. :-P
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