Come on guys.
Start another thread about "TKD FC is the real" in another thread. Start it in YMAS. This is MABS and Matt is dicussing one persons contribution or lack there of, towards TKD.
Acaman, I really don't want to spend time arguing about this, but I can't help but respond.
If you got that impression, it wasn't from anything I wrote. In my very first post I clearly laid out my predispositions. I wrote, "He also made many outrageous claims, including that he was the Founder/Father of (all) TKD, and was IMO a purveyor of bullshido. There is questionable evidence that he actually could fight at all."
Matt W., my impression was that you were trying to lead people to believe you were about to take a first look at the life of General Choi where the truth is you've made your mind up about him and want to help us come to the same conclusion.
Exactly. I didn't come to this party without already knowing a fair bit about Choi. This is just my first look at his memoirs.
...you aren't hiding your predispositions.
Anyway, those vids were pretty cool. There's some criticism I could make, but it definitely was FC with wins by knockout. However, that only makes my criticism of the rules even stronger. I was on the World Championship website, where they have the rules posted, and two things stand out. First, "full contact" is listed as grounds for disqualification. Second, "contact" is considered a foul for which you can have a point deducted. 3 points deduction leads to a DQ. I understand what you are saying about the 1 minute rule, and this isn't to question the toughness of the competitors. (A move toward FC is probably the only reason I'd even considered returning to the ITF, so I highly approve of it.) However, it just seems ass backward to run the competition in such a way that it is in complete opposition to the rules. And I think that can also make it unsafe for competitors who may not realize how it is "really done", so to speak. And finally, there is still a difference between point sparring where you can get hit hard (even hard enough to cause a KO) and true full contact. You expend energy differently and fight differently (more realistically), both of which are huge factors.
If the ITF wants to move to FC, that is absolutely fantastic. I think it could not only save the ITF, but Taekwondo in general. However, if that's what they want, then that's what they need to do. Not this "it's full contact, but not really" stuff. Also, agreed that Choi's idea of sparring is ridiculous. But it is typical of his vision of TKD, IMO.
Acaman, I'd still like to hear your TKD background. PM me if you don't want to post it publicly.
Pointy, you nailed that response to our defensive TKD poster. Not bad for a "hard man from bullshido"! (Yikes, that sounds really dirty!)
Last edited by Matt W.; 12/14/2006 12:08pm at .
Fake, I don't mind discussing it here. Side discussions related to the topic are fine. I just don't want this thread to devolve into 24 pages of 2 or 3 different posters repeatedly calling each other "retard". Know what I mean?
I sparred under Seidokaikan rules while in Japan, and I would love it if ITF moved to a similar ruleset. We can only hope.
Bugeisha, can you outline Seidokaikan rules? Is it the same as Kyokushin?
I'd love to know those rules too.
As far as my background, I don't want to be too specific, the Saroughi's are out to get me you know LOL! Basically 3 years WTF, 20+ ITF and about midway through the 20 ITF was a 4 year period while in University I trained with a lot of guys from different backgrounds, mostly Karate Judo and Jiu Jitsu.
I know that there is the ITF Circuit where it is full contact, win by KO, no head gear, thicker gloves, same boots. I think they're tinkering with the rules still to make it more exciting. Still lots of kicks, but way more punching than regular ITF. I've also heard talk of a K-1 style event being looked into for ITF style fighters. I get the feeling they are using World Championships to test out what fighters will do if they realize they can win by knockout. The rules will stay the same sop they can simply apply a double standard depending on the technique, if they see some guy swinging for the fences with a wild hook punch, he'll get a warning, if he connects, maybe even DQ'd, message; don't bother trying to do it the easy way. A well timed kick though.....no problem. A nice straight punch in an exchange, no problem. The circuit, lots of hard head punches so less fancy kicks. The WTF showed us not to take out head punching. They also showed us during various fighting demos that a true fight fan scoffs at guys throwing a 720 jumping kick that gets countered with a 540 jumping kick etc..... A fight fan wants to be able to think that shot could have caught him and ooh! Good one! They don't want to see kicks so soft to the body (that is protected) that no one even bothers blocking them.
There are still people against heavy contact but I believe General Choi's son is the driving force behind the move toward full contact and making sure that people spend less time adjusting angles of their twin upward palm blocks and more time simply learning to fight using the strikes of the art.
Sorry Pointy, I had no idea head punches were illegal in WTF.
Actually this is very common in asian cultures. It doesn't just pretain to MA. Schools of flower arranging, tea ceremony, booze making, etc tend to have at least one tale of a founder or notable person in the lineage being given a vision or a name bestowed by the divine. Sometimes the name given becomes the name of the school.
I have two different names. One is Choi Hong Hi, which was given to me by my parents; the other is Taekwon-Do which was given by heaven.
Yikes. I have also read this with the alternate translation, “…Taekwon-Do which was given by God.” Now even if you want to explain this as referring to destiny, it begs the question of why he would claim his name is the name of his martial art. I find it not surprising to think that he believed he was the personal embodiment of the art. Nevermind whether he could actually fight or not.
I got DQed from a WTF tournament for KOing a guy with a punch. This was in Korea and I was a 2nd BB at the time. The guy deserved it because he was a *****. Everytime I scored a point he acted like I destoryed his internal organs or something. He was hamming it up and after being told to "turn, kneel" too many times I got pissed and finally laid him out. I think what really sealed the DQ was when he was on the ground I leaned over and said, "Now did you actually feel that?"
Why doesn't some hard man from Bullshido enter WTF Competitions and just knock his opponents out with punches, after all, they always have their hands down, and do slappy kicks. Is there anyone on this board who has a BB in WTF? (I might be wrong so correct me if I am, but I think you can win by KO irrelevant of points in WTF.)
Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!
Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
I got DQed from a WTF tournament for KOing a guy with a punch. This was in Korea and I was a 2nd BB at the time. The guy deserved it because he was a *****. Everytime I scored a point he acted like I destoryed his internal organs or something. He was hamming it up and after being told to "turn, kneel" too many times I got pissed and finally laid him out. I think what really sealed the DQ was when he was on the ground I leaned over and said, "Now did you actually feel that?"[/quote]
i wanna be like u when i grow up, is there anything u havent encountered? lol your like some kinda
ebony captain america. dude done been to japan mixin it up with ninjers an magick pants aikidoka, dated a yakuza's daughter, sparring tkd in korea, fightin MMA tournaments
.....well i dunno bout the mma part. i'll pass on that one for now my crappling sucks.
oh yeah btw.....do you got any info on whose coming to korea in april from your side of the world for the lvl 2 combatives?
this has been an interesting post.......i never really knew too much about Gen Choi besides the Propaganda i was fed
when i first started doin tkd
Last edited by Soju_King; 12/15/2006 7:21am at .
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