Taekwon-do and I, Choi Hong-Hi's memoirs

***DerAuslander*** · Posted On: 12/13/2006 1:05am

Originally Posted by MSUTKD

Choi did not coin the term Taekwondo, the guy was a military opportunist and full of ****. Enjoy the read…it’s fiction.

I was wondering when you'd be back.

I missed you, hyung.

***DerAuslander*** · Posted On: 12/13/2006 1:09am

Originally Posted by Canuckyokushin

The Tang-so do wording is not and has never been Okinawan.

The Doh-Te seems to me to be wrong.It was for quite a while called simply Okinawa-Te.However,Choi is using korean terms to describe japanse ones.Which is strange.

You might want to ask DerAuslander for a translation.You might even want to ask Evil Asia also to confirm this.

It's the same thing.

Dangsu-Tode are the same damn thing. Write it like this: "唐手" and an Okinawan will read it as Tode and a Korean will read it as Dangsu.

***DerAuslander*** · Posted On: 12/13/2006 1:11am

Originally Posted by Matt W.

Der's a tool

Suck it, Trebeck.

***DerAuslander*** · Posted On: 12/13/2006 1:12am

Originally Posted by Acaman69

The art of manipulation is not unique in the world. General Choi was not the first to use it in Martial Arts but he certainly was the best.

Who cares who else was a manipulative bastard?

Choi is the manipulative bastard we're concerned with in this thread.

**Dr. Sleepless** · Posted On: 12/13/2006 1:53am

This thread makes my penis erect.

**babo78** · Posted On: 12/13/2006 10:26am

They should add General Choi as part of lunch special at Korean restaurants...just like General Tso's chicken.

**Acaman69** · Posted On: 12/13/2006 10:54am

emboesso, you need to check out an ITF world championship. More punching than ever, in fact some of the higher ups are looking into ways of encouraging more kicking in matches. Why? The sparring has become full contact. They still call it semi-contact because you cannot win by a typical 10 count knockout. You can however win a match if your opponent cannot continue after an injury. An opponent has 1 minute to receive medical attention and be cleared to continue by a doctor. If they are not able to, they lose. Now, if the technique was illegal (back of the head, low etc) the perpetrator is DQ'd. Legal technique, the attacker wins.

I like the sparring at this level. It encourages a vast array of techniques due to the fact the matches are only 2 rounds and it is harder to get KO'd so points usually decide it, but there is always a "punchers chance", hence the punching and yes, even punching to the head.

General Choi, near the end of his life was trying to create "traditional sparring". Jumping knife hand strikes, jumping dodging blocks, it was ugly and useless. General Choi developed 24 patterns for the ITF, used his political influence to spread the art and more importantly himself. Small man syndrome gone wild. The likes of Rhee Ki Ha, Park Jong Soo, CK Choi and the rest developed the fighting system. Even though any of his followers could have dropped him like a wet towel, they never did because he had control over other guys who would attack like pitbulls. He kept people close to him as rivals to each other so if anyone ever stepped out of line, General Choi would slap them silly and then if there was any hint of retaliation, one of the people he was with (he was NEVER alone) would gladly step in.

BTW, General Choi was the first President of the KTA, which later became the WTF. Coining the name Taekwon-Do, being the first leader of KTA and founding the ITF, who did more? He IS the father of TKD. The crappiness of TKD is an American thing that is a product of greed and ignorance. Nowhere else in the world are Martial Arts so bad as the US.

**UpaLumpa** · Posted On: 12/13/2006 11:20am

Originally Posted by Acaman69

BTW, General Choi was the first President of the KTA, which later became the WTF. Coining the name Taekwon-Do, being the first leader of KTA and founding the ITF, who did more? He IS the father of TKD. The crappiness of TKD is an American thing that is a product of greed and ignorance. Nowhere else in the world are Martial Arts so bad as the US.

You contradict yourself. The crapiness, and its magnitude is traced to korea.

**Matt W.** · Posted On: 12/13/2006 11:47am

Well, I’m quite pleased that this thread, which I figured would be pretty boring compared to the Sirc/ICY challenge and everybody calling ar549 a retard, is garnering some interest. Thanks to the people that confirmed the Doh-te/Tang-soo connection. I actually know some Japanese, but my Kanji suck, so it was quite helpful.

Acaman, you are contributing some good info to this thread. I only take exception to the following.

MattW, why is it that you claim to be sharing items from a book when you give two lines and then two paragraphs telling us what it means. No glory in winning a debate when you control the content and volume of both sides.

That’s ridiculous. First of all, you may want to reread the opening paragraphs of my first post where I explain the purpose of this thread. Second, it is absurd to expect me to quote (typing them in by hand) lengthy passages from the memoirs so that people can somehow decide for themselves. And third, I am in no way preventing anyone from posting an opposing opinion (nor could I even if I wanted to). So, it is impossible that I am controlling the content and volume of both sides.

Keep in mind the difference between tough guy fighters like Oyama and Gracie and General Choi is the same as the difference between a soldier and...well, a General.

Actually, I understand and agree with a lot of what you are saying here. However, I guess in the end, I am of the opinion that if one is going to “found” a martial art style, one should have a personal working knowledge of it, which means being able to fight (or to put it in terms that are more frequently heard on this forum: back his **** up). The fact that he might not have been able to (and the jury is still out for me) is troubling to say the least.

General Choi only ever taught patterns and details within those patterns, you never saw him giving kicking seminars or sparring or anything like it.

That jives perfectly with everything I’ve heard and the one seminar I saw myself.

Look, lots of people are posting good things (Embosso, Der, etc.). Please continue if you can. But I can’t respond as I’d like to and still continue to work on posts for the memoirs. But, I’d like to know where we’re all coming from TKD wise. I’ll start (though most regular posters here probably know this already).

I began studying TKD with the U(niversal)TF, founded by Han Cha Kyo, in the Chicago area, back in the late eighties. Got to red belt. Left for college, where I trained with the ITF club at U of Illinois for a couple months until TKD fell by the wayside. Picked it back up in the late 90’s in St. Louis where I trained under a so-called GM Yong Yun Cho. Cho claimed to be 8th dan, but the ITF has no record of him. Saw a picture of him testing for his 6th dan in front of a panel that included Gen Choi, though, so at least that much was legit. Anyhoo, I got my 1st dan from him.

Suck it, Trebeck.

Lols.

**Matt W.** · Posted On: 12/13/2006 12:11pm

The sparring has become full contact. They still call it semi-contact because you cannot win by a typical 10 count knockout.

Moving toward full contact is great. But then it should be fc, not semi but out of the blue I can wail on you and win the match. Also, can you provide any links to video? I'd like to see some of this.

As an aside, even before I knew there was a legit connection to Oyama/Kyokushin I always thought the ITF would do well moving toward a KK approach to sparring. It would still allow a lot of kicking, because it's bareknuckle it would satisfy the traditionalists who might otherwise object to a move toward "sport", and it would really set the ITF apart from the WTF in the eyes of the public. But what did we get instead? Sine wave.