12/09/2006 6:56am, #11
- Join Date
- Mar 2006
Lack of information (voluntary or involuntary) is the mother of all stupid reasoning. You don't seem to escape from this fact either, but don't worry, it's impossible to know everything; that's when being a little humble on your statements comes in handy.
12/10/2006 2:59am, #12
Originally Posted by Dave Humm
- Join Date
- Aug 2004
Originally Posted by Alex
Originally Posted by Shinshoryu
At the end of the day, no one has anything other than the information available to them to make a judgement on something - I guess if the guy who's smart enough in every other walk of life but then takes up a zero contact art and believes he's gonna be the next undisputed master of the universe has no previous information about fighting arts then he could be forgiven for making such a mistake.
On the other hand - almost everyone has seen a boxing match or had a scrap in school or seen one, so people must have some idea what a fight looks like to know that what they're doing doesn't look the same.
Still, as Alex said, never underestimate the power of denial.
On a side note, if someone had painted the old guy blue and given him a hat ... :icon_bigs
*an unnecessarily fucking disgusting metaphor
12/10/2006 5:09am, #13
It is very easy to put oneself into a bubble and feed into a delusion. This is why I find obvious cracked critical thinking like Holocaust Denial and Young Earth Creationism rather fascinating. Leave aside the frauds--the racists, Master-Race Wannabes, and hypocrites--dherents cherry-pick data they receive in a comfortable environment. Challenges are explained and dismissed.
Two stories: the first involves a now Senior-Senior-Senior regarding when he first started teaching as a shodan or even--gasp!--a nidan. He was "invincible" in his class. So he entered a tournament back in the early 70s and, as he put it, a Japanese practitioner, "who did not know my rank nor really cared," promptly planted his foot in his gut and sent him right out of the area. He had the literal "wind knocked out of him." Basically, he had fooled himself that beating students--who would not really challenge "sensei"--meant he was keeping up his skills.
The second story involves a classic study of cults: When Prophecy Fails. Basically, some sociologists studied a cult that predicted the end of the world. Obviously, it did not happen.
No, TKD Blackbelt, the world did not end. No . . . I do not care what you heard.
Now the sociologists figured when the cult leader's prophecy of the end of the world failed, her followers would flee. Not quite. She came up with some ridiculous explanation. The failure merely weeded out the doubters. Those who really believed were willing to buy into a new lie rather than admit they had been fooled.
So do not worry! You will never be taken down . . . you have the anti-grapple . . . and there is lava and squirrels down there . . . no one will punch your lights out so keep your hands down . . . ancient history says your kicks killed samurai . . . and stuff.
Oh and all of the bad people simply grab your wrists.
12/10/2006 5:42pm, #14
Originally Posted by Alex
- Join Date
- Aug 2006
The yin and the yang of existence, manifest through humanity and described oh so poetically by Alex. :)
12/10/2006 11:01pm, #15
Originally Posted by Virus
- Join Date
- Jun 2006
Aristotle's argument on the Prime Mover coincides nicely with Big Bang Theory, thus providing religious folks a lot of cosmological wiggle room, and giving agnosticism a significantly lower bar to hurdle than actual atheism. Not religious, but given the topic at hand, it seemed appropriate.
Yes, I typed Big Bang. Those of you who are still living at home may now insert dick jokes.
12/10/2006 11:36pm, #16
Eddie the Lurker... this is a subject which chills me to the bone...
I was roped in to _ing _un delusions for years, to my shame.
Speaking personally, the main reasons my rational though processes failed me for so long were:
* My teachers genuinely believed the rubbish they told me, so they told it convincingly.
* I was in a bubble: Limited knowledge of other MAs meant I bought into arguments like "you can flow round karate or boxing blocks like water, because their blocks are hard"... sheesh
* The 'science' stuff chunners spout attracts people who are naturally skeptical about Chi/Ki, as I was. The irony is it's kind of worse. It's a parody of science - empirical evidence is an inconvenience, brushed under the carpet by chunners.
* The mindset 'well, I'm not sure whether I can fight, but I've come this far so I might as well carry on...'
*'Secret' or advanced techniques. Some stuff is held back for years. The 'deadly' stuff especially. Maybe that's why people still can't fight for **** even after 5 years of _ing _un... they don't have the deadly techniques yet...
*There were a few people I trained with, and a few instructors who actually had lots of fighting experience. What didn't twig at the time though, was that they were doormen. Who do bouncers fight? That's right. Drunk fuckers. Want to fight drunks? Do _ing _un.
*Other ignorant people were impressed when I told them about Wangy Chong, thus making me feel like cool.
*Your uniform gets progressively cooler as you go on. I had a black uniform with red bits at the end, and thought it was badass. Now considering cutting it up for oilrags.
I can't get back those wasted years, but if someone asks me about wangy cunting changy now, I don't mince words.
12/11/2006 12:19am, #17
Originally Posted by Eddie
- Join Date
- Apr 2006
- hfx ns ca na da
Look at good old L. Ron. I have no doubt that he started off just consciously making **** up about Xenu and whatnot to get some coin, some respect (some friends, maybe) - some pulp writing that really pays. He eventually lost it though, ended up in agony on his deathbed screaming at his "Body Thetans". The wolf in sheeps clothing forgets he's in disguise and gives his own tail the old ouroboros chomp.
A less extreme example can probably found in a lot of political leaders. It's hard to get very far in politics without being ruthless, opportunistic, and not a little bit full of ****. So, you end up making decisions that serve yourself, or serve your friends who in turn serve you, at the expense of the electorate. Meanwhile, your public face espouses some kind of political philosophy, says it's all to serve the people in one way or another. Can you sleep at night thinking that all you do is say one thing while believing another, or do you try to meet yourself halfway and believe in a little bit of the **** you spew yourself?
12/11/2006 12:21am, #18
I find the most dangerous BS is that which is spouted by those who study up on talking points or have prior experience. I've known a few Ke?po guys who can kick some serious ass, but that it being due to either past experience in Boxing or Kickboxing or by simply training and sparring hard outside of class time. Problem is, is then they go crediting their ability to their kata and punching in drills, which then feeds the next lower ranking student the mentality that if they do their compliant drills and kata that they will become as awesome as that guy when they most definately never will.
The reason I say they are the worst, is because if you challenge them to step up, they can and will, and that lower rank student with no ability isn't quite in the position to criticize and step up themself.Knowing is not enough, you must apply...
...Willing is not enough you must do ~Bruce Lee
12/11/2006 1:06am, #19Originally Posted by Happycrow
12/11/2006 1:24am, #20
Originally Posted by KempoFist
- Join Date
- Sep 2006
- Area 51
Back in the early 90's when I first decided to take MA's, I chose Wah Lum Kung-Fu. Man I was so into it. All those badass forms and all. Then I went to a tournament. I saw all the killer forms and was really impressed until the sparring started...
Then they all turned into kick-boxers. Those that tried to apply the "styles" looked like fools and got thier asses handed to them by those that disgarded the style and adopted kickboxing approaches. What's more, it was point-sparring which sucked in it's own right.
Needless to say, as a person looking to learn how to fight; I was bitterly dissillusioned. I quit the Kung-Fu school and joined (what I thought) was a better style- TKD.
I was again dissillusioned.
Fast forward to today. I decided to try again. Since all I had known was TKD, I went looking for something with more "teeth". I found Kuk Sool Won. The instructor there, who in close association with his 5th degree tried to foster the idea that since he was a "gold medalist" in sparring (at the WKSA WChampionships) and his 5th degree had (supposedly) been a Full Contact fighter in the Phillipines (and supposedly undefeated), that they were t3h sh1t. It wasn't until I got 4 months into classes and found Bullshido (and subsequently SBGi and Matt Thornton) was it that I realized that I had been duped again. I should have known better when I was talking to my instructor about showing me how to try some of the Ki Bohn Soo techniques (the 15 standing wrist locking/throwing techniques) in sparring, and he told me they were not really applicable in sparring and that they couldn't be mastered for decades. He suggested that we learn them at a lower rank just so we can learn the pressure points and get the "feel" of them. Although he tried to sound convincing, looking back I realize the look he had in his eyes and his body language indicated that he didn't really believe what he was telling me. He rattled it off so pre-rehearsed that I didn't really give it much further thought at the time. But that little voice that you never listen to was trying to whisper to me in the back of my mind...my "Spidey sense" was going off...
..and that wasn't the only time things were said that let me know there were two sides to my instructors. Especially the 5th degree, who would make cracks like "yeah, go ahead and try that if you are getting mugged...**** no you better run! Hahahaha" but most of the sheeple (newbies) would never question when these types of comments were made on the sly. I mean, how dare we question Kwan Jang Nim...look at his general's uniform and table-cloth like belt with custom embroidery!
I wonder now how all of these people of "high rank" could seemingly follow so blindly and go along with such a bullshit art...and the only conclusion I came to was the money. Which pisses me off to no end, but I guess if we were all stupid enough not to question and were fooled by those "masters demos" and people spinning Jool Bongs and swords when you visit to check them out. So comfortable were they that they could crack jokes and make fun of us right in our faces...