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  1. ONE TWO THREE FOUR FIVE is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/13/2006 11:48am


     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Cross Collar Choke from in the Guard

    I'm curious who uses a cross collar choke when they are inside someones guard and when they will sue it if they do?

    I've heard it said a lot that if you use cross collars your begging to get armbarred but in Judo I haven't really seen this happen much. I cross collar choke when to try and set up a pass when the guy under me hasn't got his hips out and have never had a problem with it and I've never managed to catch anyone halfway proficient on the ground when they try this move.

    Now of course you could say that this is because Judo sucks on the ground but in the club I train at we spend about 40% of our time on ground work so I don't really accept its a lack of ability on the part of the people I roll with. In addition we have a guy trainnign with us who has 2 years of pure BJJ and he says he reckons BJJ is missing out on a trick by not teaching the technique.
  2. GoldenJonas is offline

    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    12/13/2006 11:53am

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Slindsay
    I've heard it said a lot that if you use cross collars your begging to get armbarred
    Not begging, YOU WILL get armbarred.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slindsay
    I cross collar choke when to try and set up a pass when the guy under me hasn't got his hips out and have never had a problem with it and I've never managed to catch anyone halfway proficient on the ground when they try this move.
    If you try a cross collar choke from inside someone guard and you DO NOT get either swept or armbarred, you need to find some one else, who knows what they are doing, to roll with. End of story.
  3. ViciousFlamingo is offline
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    Pingo

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    Posted On:
    12/13/2006 12:00pm


     Style: BJJ & Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Slindsay
    I'm curious who uses a cross collar choke when they are inside someones guard and when they will sue it if they do?

    I've heard it said a lot that if you use cross collars your begging to get armbarred but in Judo I haven't really seen this happen much. I cross collar choke when to try and set up a pass when the guy under me hasn't got his hips out and have never had a problem with it and I've never managed to catch anyone halfway proficient on the ground when they try this move.

    Now of course you could say that this is because Judo sucks on the ground but in the club I train at we spend about 40% of our time on ground work so I don't really accept its a lack of ability on the part of the people I roll with. In addition we have a guy trainnign with us who has 2 years of pure BJJ and he says he reckons BJJ is missing out on a trick by not teaching the technique.
    Huh. And here I thought it was just my judo club that was doing those cross chokes from every damn position.

    In my own experience with the judo guys I know, only the ones that aren't so terrific at groundwork try cross-choking from inside someone's guard. They used to try it on me, but then I started catching armbars and even some double armbars, and they've eventually stopped trying. All the black belts I know don't ever try it.

    I've found this is the easiest to do: When my opponent grabs for the cross choke, I let him get both grips, but stop him from locking in by ducking my chin and/or getting an arm in. I break his posture by rocking him forward a few time and then walking my guard up his back. He can't stop the posture break without letting go of the grips because he can't push off my chest or hips. Once my guard is locked in high, and we're nearly chest-to-chest, I either break one grip and/or weave in a leg to lock in a triangle, or underhook one of his legs and do a flower sweep.
  4. ONE TWO THREE FOUR FIVE is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/13/2006 12:12pm


     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ViciousFlamingo
    Huh. And here I thought it was just my judo club that was doing those cross chokes from every damn position.

    In my own experience with the judo guys I know, only the ones that aren't so terrific at groundwork try cross-choking from inside someone's guard. They used to try it on me, but then I started catching armbars and even some double armbars, and they've eventually stopped trying. All the black belts I know don't ever try it.

    I've found this is the easiest to do: When my opponent grabs for the cross choke, I let him get both grips, but stop him from locking in by ducking my chin and/or getting an arm in. I break his posture by rocking him forward a few time and then walking my guard up his back. He can't stop the posture break without letting go of the grips because he can't push off my chest or hips. Once my guard is locked in high, and we're nearly chest-to-chest, I either break one grip and/or weave in a leg to lock in a triangle, or underhook one of his legs and do a flower sweep.
    Ahh, see what I try without success is to open up my guard and shrimp my hips out to set up juji gatame but the more experienced guys tend to drive in the moment I open my guard and stack me to make the armbar difficult and drive a lot mroe weight through the choke.

    Edit: I also try to scissor sweep them figuring that they can't base out to avoid the sweep but they tend to lift their elbow out and post of it or release the choke and post out on a hand.

    I posted it in Guanatanamo bay so I don't get savage reprisals for saying this do I? I'm doing something wrong there aren't I? I just know it.
    Last edited by ONE TWO THREE FOUR FIVE; 12/13/2006 12:16pm at .
  5. ViciousFlamingo is offline
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    Pingo

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    Posted On:
    12/13/2006 12:23pm


     Style: BJJ & Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Slindsay
    Ahh, see what I try without success is to open up my guard and shrimp my hips out to set up juji gatame but the more experienced guys tend to drive in the moment I open my guard and stack me to make the armbar difficult and drive a lot mroe weight through the choke.

    Edit: I also try to scissor sweep them figuring that they can't base out to avoid the sweep but they tend to lift their elbow out and post of it or release the choke and post out on a hand.

    I posted it in Guanatanamo bay so I don't get savage reprisals for saying this do I? I'm doing something wrong there aren't I? I just know it.
    I tried opening my guard and whatnot, but I had the same problems as you, most of the guys would jump forward, zerg rush, and then smash me straight into the ground. I don't like going for the scissor sweep when they have the collar choke grips, either. The reason for this is that they've got grips on my body. Whenever you move backwards, all they have to do is yank or just hold on, and they'll move with you. Unless you get a foot on his hip or do Aesopian's stupid simple push-scissor sweep combo (and those aren't even too useful in the situation), it's not gonna happen.

    Do you know SBG's "pit stop"? I find that it's pretty easy to get to the pit stop if he holds on to the collar choke. Otherwise, you can push one of his elbows down and slide your knee up underneath his other elbow, so you can lock in a triangle hold (ankles crossed like in closed guard, but with an arm and head controlled instead of the torso). From either position, you've got great control of his upper body, which makes it easy to get triangles and armbars (leading into different sub combos). Also, SWEEP CITY.
  6. pauli is offline

    i keep tryin to spar, but nothin happens!

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    Posted On:
    12/13/2006 12:30pm

    supporting member
     Style: karate / bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    position.

    before.

    submission.
  7. maurice is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/13/2006 12:31pm


     Style: Mo-jitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ViciousFlamingo
    underhook one of his legs and do a flower sweep.
    :thumbsup:
    The sweep is a slam dunk, because they tied up their own hands going for the choke.
  8. ViciousFlamingo is offline
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    Pingo

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    Posted On:
    12/13/2006 12:36pm


     Style: BJJ & Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by maurice
    :thumbsup:
    The sweep is a slam dunk, because they tied up their own hands going for the choke.
    It's funny, I've been hitting the flower sweep so much lately I've had to force myself to not use it. Granted, the judo guys I train with aren't amazing at groundwork, but I regularly get the flower sweep from triangle control, fix the triangle from mount, then either finish there, take the armbar, or just play with my opponent. MAKE HIM WIGGLE.

    I like having triangle control or pit stop, because it makes it really easy to move my opponent's upper body in the direction of the sweep.
  9. ViciousFlamingo is offline
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    Pingo

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    Posted On:
    12/13/2006 2:01pm


     Style: BJJ & Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
  10. ONE TWO THREE FOUR FIVE is offline
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    Posted On:
    12/13/2006 2:20pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Cheers for the link, I liked the:

    "i'm stacking the **** out of you so you cant armbar me muhahahahha choke"

    Regardles of anything else, I'm renaming the choke to that.

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