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  1. Tonuzaba is online now
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    C.E. B.S.net Ambassador

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    Posted On:
    12/04/2006 3:28am

    supporting member
     Style: (Beautiful) Spring Roll

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kagan
    The secret is out!
    Tom, I am sure you are aware of the basic truth in all the "only 5" type of arguments, which is simply that some people have learned the movements only (or some of them) and some trained the actual applications, which is what matters.
    If you take a few seconds and google whichever -ing -un freehand set (which I'm sure you did many times, just like myself) and compare a few guys practising them, you can pretty much tell if they know anything about the supposed in-fight use of the techniques. Already the first few movements of the Siu Nim Tau will tell you if the practitioner is a sissy-slapping kind, if you know what to look for...
    This one is for a long debate, preferrably mixed with some hands-on training, but I hope I made my point clear.
    This is why you can never learn a technique from a book or video. You wouldn't even get the movement right, not to speak of applying it against a resisting opponent.
    So in my eyes it's not about how many people learned the movements of the Muk Jang Chong set. It's about who knows how to utilize them in actual training/fight.
    Tonuzaba
  2. alex is offline
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    STOP POSTING!

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    Posted On:
    12/04/2006 3:41am

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     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    the wooden dummy is still a collosal waste of money though. just buy some chinese person off ebay for half the price and do some "live" training with them _b
  3. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    12/04/2006 11:15am

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Southpaw
    I do agree w/ your comments...I believe Duncan Leung actually mentions in his book that he is one of the few who actually learned how to apply the dummy...but I'll check that. I do know that as a person who trains in a kwoon under his lineage, it is a word-of-mouth 'fact'. No surpise there I guess.

    Saying "one of the few" never really bothered me. It's just when someone talks as if they have some sort of secret or lost technique where it starts to run afoul of my sniff test, and saying "only five" is one of those cases, in my opinion.
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
  4. Tom Kagan is offline
    Tom Kagan's Avatar

    Dark Overlord of the Bullshido Underworld

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    Posted On:
    12/04/2006 11:24am

    supporting member
     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tonuzaba
    If you take a few seconds and google whichever -ing -un freehand set (which I'm sure you did many times, just like myself) and compare a few guys practising them, you can pretty much tell if they know anything about the supposed in-fight use of the techniques. Already the first few movements of the Siu Nim Tau will tell you if the practitioner is a sissy-slapping kind, if you know what to look for...
    At this point, given the dearth of evidence of real APPLICATION, there is no fucking way in hell I can agree with you. Without evidence of RESULT, everything you think you see can just as easily be attributed to stylistic interpretation.

    So, you think you know the difference. That's fine. But to expect anyone to accept your word when you yourself have not established your credentials as to your abilities on a site full of skeptics is a little nuts. And, unlike Dr._Tzun_Tzu, I do not recall you pointing to a specific video you interpret as correct and try to explain why.
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
  5. TehDeadlyDimMak is offline
    TehDeadlyDimMak's Avatar

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    12/04/2006 2:16pm


     Style: Sanda, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    For 900 bucks you could probably get a private session with Ernesto Hoost. That's worth more than any WC dummy.
  6. Torakaka is offline
    Torakaka's Avatar

    Do you eat breakfast?

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    Kaka village
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    Posted On:
    12/04/2006 3:26pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kitty Pow Pow!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    and you wouldn't have this big, ugly, useless wooden thing taking up a huge space in your house.
    Ranked #9 internationally at 118lbs by WIKBA http://www.womenkickboxing.com/wikba...rch%202009.htm
  7. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    San Diego
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    Posted On:
    12/04/2006 3:31pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    wooden dummies aren't totally useless. Cold Steel's training facility and I believe R1 gym contain wooden dummies, and the backbone of training at those locations is sparring. Having said that, without the proper instruction I don't think its too useful, and as mentioned they are expensive as hell. A while back I considered making a choy li fut wooden dummy (way cooler than wing chun dummy) but I never did. I second the notion of buying a heavy bag. Title makes the best ones that won't break like Everlast or Century.
  8. kgubbins is offline

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    Posted On:
    12/05/2006 2:38am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Kung fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    thanks for the feedback guys....i was just curious b/c a friend of mine owns one and he seems to like it.....anything i can get to sharpen applications i would consider getting but yeah they are pretty damn expensive
  9. Southpaw is offline
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    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    12/05/2006 8:59am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You can build one yourself if you are handy enough.

    I did it for under $100.
  10. WT_Noob is offline

    Registered Member

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    Sep 2006
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    California
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    Posted On:
    12/05/2006 5:16pm


     Style: EBMAS WT ,Latosa Escrima

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shuma-Gorath
    I submit this to the original poster as proof that people who own wooden dummies are simply not smart enough to hit something that moves.

    Garbanzo Bean -"(he hasn't figured out that it's not a real person yet)"



    so you guys think it's also stupid to use a heavy bag or hit a speed ball too?
    Last edited by WT_Noob; 12/05/2006 5:21pm at .
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