Interesting. I could see that. Of course last time I had a history class where we talked about capoeira was years and years ago, so my memory of it probably isn't complete anyway. :p
Originally Posted by cafezinho
Videos split off into the Style vs. Style videos forum.
Thread is here:
IMO modern, mainstream capoeira bears about the same relationship to street fighting as modern boxe Francaise does to old-school savate or defense dans la rue.
In both cases, you have martial arts that began as rough, uncodified fighting styles/combat games. They each passed through a period where they were mostly associated with gangsters and the criminal underworld. Both arts eventually became codified and commodified as ritual combat/exercise systems that could be packaged for the middle classes.
Did Brazillian street fighters (and Parisian gangsters) a hundred years ago use razors, sticks etc. to fight? Absolutely, they were cheaper and easier to get than guns. Was their street fighting also informed by their combat games, playing capoeira and savate, respectively? According to oral tradition and surviving police reports from the 1800s, yes it was. The combat games were played for fun and as agility, fitness, etc. training. It seems to have been understood that only some of the game skills crossed over into real fighting. BTW this is characteristic of most "old world" MAs.
Nowadays la boxe Francaise is a fully regulated sport and the self defense elements have become specialized as "savate defense". The savate defense curriculum is stressed by some teachers but they are in a minority. Capoeira isn't quite that far down the road to full regulation, but likewise, I'd say that the majority of capoeira instructors in the US, Europe and Australasia focus on the ritual/combat/exercise/game aspects more than on the self defense aspects.
LOL at the "We train not to BE THERE when the blow comes!" nonsense. That's what every TKD LARPer says.
You say that your training does not involve full contact--"fighters" kick and strike at the air near their partners, but not the partners themselves. It is not possible that you train effectively to avoid blows by "not being there" without regularly training against people who are actually attempting to hit you. That would ruin the dance and the rhythm, so I understand why Capoeira would choose not to do it, but don't make up silly stuff like that. Man up and admit what you do. Capoeira isn't some shameful thing--it's no worse than playing softball or flag football with your buddies for fun. But it's not fighting and it's not training for fighting.
I train with the intention of winning. That's why when I compete I'll totally win.
Watching capoeristas gives me boners.
In these parts, they're full of hot, athletic men.
Originally Posted by feral
Last edited by narcolepsy; 12/15/2006 1:40am at .
Damn yall!!!! Haven't you seen Only The Strong??? Capo-what-the-****-ever is all the **** in Rio. It's the total rage between the Sharks and the Jets in south Miami. Wait the Sharks and the Jets are a bunch acting dancers in a musical. DANCERS.... Wow!!! Sounds familliar.
Nobody was giving you any **** until you tried to make it sound like a legit fighting style. In fact I recall a few folks giving you props due to the athletic nature and coordination of your sport. But if you truely believe in it then compete in a full contact event. Video the **** and post it. I'd pay good money to see it. Whatever the outcome.
(BTW... I know the westside stroy wasn't set in Miami. It was in played out in the darkest alleys of Boise Idaho... right???)
I'm currently trying to find a Capoeira place and while I'm going to have to agree with most of the other posters that current capoeira isn't much of an MA by itself. I believe that doesn't mean its not a useful art. Seems that just gaining the flexibility, balance and general acrobatic speed and ability is enough of a reason to take it. It seems to teach kicks and attacks and like any martial art if they were practiced under real fight conditions I bet they could be refined into something usable much like TKD in its current state. It has useful elements and things that can be gained by training in it but by itself its hardly usable as self defense. I'd say to turn Capo into a fighting art it just needs to be trained like its a fighting art. But again thats just my opinion and I could be (probably am) wrong.
Because I'm lazy, I'll share a story I read on this forum about capoeira in full contact fighting.
Once apon a time, I was in yonder tournament ground when upon the ring came forth two fighters. The announcer took both their names and styles, and shared them to the crowd, which gasped at the style of the capoeirista. The capoeirista was against a kickboxer, and the crowd drew closer to gaze upon the spectacle of the dance fighter.
But much to their dismay, both contenders seemed to be only kickboxing! This was not capoeira! There was no rythm, no dancing, it seemed to be some guy palm heeling another man who responded with kicks. But lo, the capoeirista had a trick up his sleeves, as his kind will do, and upon opening up with a few palm heels, switched into a hasty ginga and suddenly delived a blow with his feet from a one handed handstand, completely knocking out his kickboxing competition. He won.
And there was much feasting on stuff. Like sloths and orangutans and stuff.
It was a neat story. Unfortunately, there was no proof.
First: Sorry I didn't see this sooner
Second: Sorry, but I'm not going to read 5 pages of posts in one night.
I do capoeira at my college's club. It's fun, good excersize and nice people (Tho' no mega-hawt Brazilian girls sad to say). And while I wouldn't recommend it for a primary art (or maybe even secondary) and find that it can create some real bad habits in the whole telegraphing move area I know two people who've used it succesfully in fights.
One is my teacher Faisca, he roundhouse kicked a guy in the head in a parking-lot argument. The other was my friend Tony who did a spinning back kick into someone's gut and proceeded to body-slam and punch them for a KO (it was Helmet Boxing or Locker Boxing or whatever. Either way, both had reliable witnesses and I trust these happened).
So while I may not go using a maya lua [sp?] in a fight, I won't automatically crack "tribal breakdancing" jokes when I hear its name (tho' I'm sometimes sorely tempted the way people sometimes try to pass it off as t3h d34dly sl4v3 4rt).
EDIT: Forgot to add these parts: Faisca's kick might've been sort of a "sucker kick" where they were chatting and he just rears back and let's 'er rip. I'm not sure, I'll ask him next time I see him. And Tony's a huge monster. 6' something or other 200+ lbs (easily) and pretty aggressive in all of his bouts that night. He was fighting someone maybe a little less than a head shorter, but still a strong guy himself.
Last edited by WorldWarCheese; 10/22/2007 10:34pm at .
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