Any other capoeiristas in the house?

**Mago** · Posted On: 12/09/2006 9:49pm

Originally Posted by TehDeadlyDimMak

Stop trying to trick them. Just be blunt, it's not the same as flaming.

Copoeira has a bad reputation on this board for several reasons. The main one being that the training methods involved in most copoeira are more effective at developing breakdancers than fighters.

Not surprising. Breakdancing informed itself from capoeira. Capoeira did not inform from breakdancing.

Copoeira students have not faired well in any sort of professional combat sport for example. Some kickboxers/mixed martial artists have used Copoeira moves to make a statement every blue moon. That statement normally is "I'm beating you so bad that I can fool around with these copoeira moves." The fact is that a Muay Thai fighter trains by kicking another person who's moving around freely trying to kick him back. A Copoeirist is trying to kick the air above his partner to a rhythm. Naturally the Muay Thai practitioner will be better accustomed to fighting since his training methods resemble actual fighting more than those used in Copoeira.

A capoeirista kicks at his/her opponent. We also train to teach the capoerista not to be there when the strike/kick lands. Especially in Regional (I don't speak for Angoleiros, since that style bases itself even more on trickery and deceit.) Now, as not for tricking my opponent - if I get my enemy to waste his energy throwing where I am not, then kudos for me - a wasted blow takes twice the energy to pull back and re-chamber than it does if it's blocked or deflected. Capoeira's strikes all bring the body back to the ginga, the base motion. Wasted energy? To a point, but hell - it works. Slaves since antiquity used it to free themselves from their armed and nasty slaveowners.

That said I have huge respect for the athleticism and talent showcased in Copoeira. I even took a course when I was much younger. However, there is no empirical evidence to show that Copoeira is one of the more effective fighting arts out there.

Never said it was was a 'more effective,' just more effective than people realize. Its the best-kept non-secret in capoeira - everyone looks at it and goes, 'nah, their a bunch of fairies floating about (pun intended)' and few see the real fight inside the pretty motion. Not many other arts are as visually. Yeah, it is athletic.

The main difference between capoeira and most martial arts is in its uses. capoeira is definitely a street-oriented art - the art was banned in Brazil from the late 1800's to the 1930s. It was known as a criminal and thug's art. The razors were straight razors, though. No toes, as far as I know.

**Mago** · Posted On: 12/09/2006 9:57pm

Originally Posted by TehDeadlyDimMak

Stop trying to trick them. Just be blunt, it's not the same as flaming.

Copoeira has a bad reputation on this board for several reasons. The main one being that the training methods involved in most copoeira are more effective at developing breakdancers than fighters.

Not surprising. Breakdancing informed itself from capoeira. Capoeira did not inform from breakdancing.

Copoeira students have not faired well in any sort of professional combat sport for example. Some kickboxers/mixed martial artists have used Copoeira moves to make a statement every blue moon. That statement normally is "I'm beating you so bad that I can fool around with these copoeira moves." The fact is that a Muay Thai fighter trains by kicking another person who's moving around freely trying to kick him back. A Copoeirist is trying to kick the air above his partner to a rhythm. Naturally the Muay Thai practitioner will be better accustomed to fighting since his training methods resemble actual fighting more than those used in Copoeira.

A capoeirista kicks at his/her opponent. We also train to teach the capoerista not to be there when the strike/kick lands. Especially in Regional (I don't speak for Angoleiros, since that style bases itself even more on trickery and deceit.) Now, as not for tricking my opponent - if I get my enemy to waste his energy throwing where I am not, then kudos for me - a wasted blow takes twice the energy to pull back and re-chamber than it does if it's blocked or deflected. Capoeira's strikes all bring the body back to the ginga, the base motion. Wasted energy? To a point, but hell - it works. Slaves since antiquity used it to free themselves from their armed and nasty slaveowners.

That said I have huge respect for the athleticism and talent showcased in Copoeira. I even took a course when I was much younger. However, there is no empirical evidence to show that Copoeira is one of the more effective fighting arts out there.

Never said it was was a 'more effective' art than any other, just a more effective art than people realize. Its the best-kept non-secret in capoeira - everyone looks at it and goes, 'nah, their a bunch of fairies floating about (pun intended)' and few see the real fight inside the pretty motion. Not many other arts are as visually. Yeah, it is athletic.

The main difference between capoeira and most martial arts is in its uses. capoeira is definitely a street-oriented art - the art was banned in Brazil from the late 1800's to the 1930s. It was known as a criminal and thug's art. The razors were straight razors, though. No toes, as far as I know.

**thecolin** · Posted On: 12/11/2006 8:04pm

Originally Posted by Mago

A capoeirista kicks at his/her opponent. We also train to teach the capoerista not to be there when the strike/kick lands. Especially in Regional (I don't speak for Angoleiros, since that style bases itself even more on trickery and deceit.) Now, as not for tricking my opponent - if I get my enemy to waste his energy throwing where I am not, then kudos for me - a wasted blow takes twice the energy to pull back and re-chamber than it does if it's blocked or deflected. Capoeira's strikes all bring the body back to the ginga, the base motion. Wasted energy? To a point, but hell - it works. Slaves since antiquity used it to free themselves from their armed and nasty slaveowners.

That's a nice theory, but all good styles teach some element of avoidance, and all good styles realize that sometimes, no matter how fast you are, you're going to get hit. If you ever want to be able to fight you need to train to hit and be hit, non of this "I'll hit him when the time calls for it".

A huge problem is that most of the capoeira strikes rely on missing to work, they are circular motions that flow together, if you stike someone that circle is broken and your momentum is lost. And that slapping with the bottom of the foot stuff is never going to do much damage to anybody.

Like everyone else here, I respect the atheticism of your sport, but I don't think it can be called a martial art.

**bigballz** · Posted On: 12/14/2006 12:39pm

i only learned basic footwork from capoeira. very effective

**Antifa** · Posted On: 12/14/2006 2:10pm

Originally Posted by bigballz

i only learned basic footwork from capoeira. very effective

Must not Troll N00B

**BackFistMonkey** · Posted On: 12/14/2006 2:33pm

Originally Posted by Mago

In 1920, capoeira had evolved into a slow-played art of cunning and deception.

Originally Posted by Mago

Is it as effective as other martial arts? I think so. Capoeira is a fight of deception. That pretty ginga swing camouflages punches and hand strikes (I favor open palm strikes to the ear and nose). Lots of capoeira is a lie hidden in a falsehood on an uncertain premise. A good capoeirista is going to show you a lot, or a little, and never the same thing twice.

Its works, effectively.

Capoeira is based on the same basic ideas as Ninjitsu ? Shroud it in deception and keep making stuff up as you go ?

I like the direct proven methods of training for self defense and dancing seperately from one another .

but hey if you think it works ... by all means .. welcome to Bullshido and have fun .

**Phrost** · Posted On: 12/14/2006 2:38pm

Will you look at that? This thread magically appeared in YMAS!

**MacWombat** · Posted On: 12/14/2006 2:42pm

Dun dun dunnnnnnnnnnnn.

**BackFistMonkey** · Posted On: 12/14/2006 2:46pm

Originally Posted by Jack Frost

Will you look at that? This thread magically appeared in YMAS!

It is like magic only better ! This is the best late birthday present ever .

Thanks Phrost .

Originally Posted by l Bullshido Message Board Elves

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Jack Frost again.

**cafezinho** · Posted On: 12/14/2006 2:57pm

This is why it's so hard to have any real conversation about capoeira as a martial art. Things like "back in the good old days, they used razors", yet there isn't even a hint of knife work in capoeira. The only document I've ever read that said "\capoeira was ever used by a brazilian slave against whitey in a fight was a kid kicking some aristocrat in the chest and running off. Capoeira is danced to music in a roda, and anything outside of that is just larping.