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  1. Jorec is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/30/2006 1:19am


     Style: Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Kick Defence.

    Alright, i'm looking to learn some basic defence against kicks, so that I don't get eaten alive should I ever spar with a MT or some other kicking art practitioner.

    My question being, is it possible to learn decent kick defence on your own with a guide or perhaps with a short amount of instruction?
    Or am I going to have to suck it up and shell out cashy money for a few months of MT lessons.

    The only reason I ask this seemingly retarded question is that i'm a broke ass student tryin to save cash where I can (MT lessons are expensive around here :|) and kick defense seems like it would be fairly simple to pick up.
  2. Torakaka is offline
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    Do you eat breakfast?

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    Posted On:
    11/30/2006 1:26am

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     Style: Kitty Pow Pow!!!

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jorec
    Alright, i'm looking to learn some basic defence against kicks, so that I don't get eaten alive should I ever spar with a MT or some other kicking art practitioner.

    My question being, is it possible to learn decent kick defence on your own with a guide or perhaps with a short amount of instruction?
    Or am I going to have to suck it up and shell out cashy money for a few months of MT lessons.

    The only reason I ask this seemingly retarded question is that i'm a broke ass student tryin to save cash where I can (MT lessons are expensive around here :|) and kick defense seems like it would be fairly simple to pick up.

    At the very least, you're gonna have to spar regularly with someone that knows how to throw something resembling a thai kick to ever learn how to defend them. The idea of picking your leg up at a 45 degree angle to block a leg kick is pretty easy to figure out, but you're still gonna get your legs chopped in half by a half way decent leg kicker unless you've got the practice. Probably the best way to get a sense of what kick defense looks like (apart from actually training) is watch a bunch of muay thai matches from Thailand. The Thai, IMO, seem to have the best kick blocking and evasion I've seen.
    Ranked #9 internationally at 118lbs by WIKBA http://www.womenkickboxing.com/wikba...rch%202009.htm
  3. alex is offline
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    STOP POSTING!

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    Posted On:
    11/30/2006 2:01am

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     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    practice is -the- only way you are going to get decent at it.
  4. jubei33 is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/30/2006 7:06am


     Style: Boxing, Solar Ray Attack

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    better start conditioning
  5. vinhthekid is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/30/2006 7:25am


     Style: BJJ/MMA

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    yeah... you're going to be black and bruised all over.

    gotta love it.
  6. Aero is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/30/2006 10:06am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ/Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I happen to agree with everyone above that practice is the only way to get any sort of good kick defense, much less competent defense against a good kicker.


    None the less, in the interest of providing you with a different answer...should someone manage to be bad enough at kicking or the situation ending up with you being able to grab their leg....

    It isn't incredibly hard to A. kick out their other leg? B. Move in on them real fast and sweep/trip....if you are real mean and somewhat relaxed you can reap the leg in towards you real hard and apply hard force to their...chin...neck..face? and try to spike them down on the back of their head/neck.

    For other non-leg kicks there is the obvious defense...move diagonally towards/laterally away straight leg kicks...block/cover and ride off less straight kicks?

    I agree with the lovely MT practictioners that the raised leg is the best way to block leg kicks... I have some experience with it and still usually get kicked...you can't just pick it up with no practice.
  7. Letum is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/30/2006 11:12am


     Style: Boxing.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Unfortunately, you are going to need MT lessons, well "unfortunate" hardly seems correct since you will enjoy them so much.

    Primarily, the evasive footwork/fitness/reflexes you picked up in Boxing are a great start, however they are not really sufficent.

    Yes, figuring out how to check the opponents kick may seem easy, but without drilling and testing you're not going to be able to do it sucessfuly - This is part of the argument versus various TMA schools.

    Also, conditioning. It matters.
  8. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/30/2006 1:02pm

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     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jorec
    Alright, i'm looking to learn some basic defence against kicks, so that I don't get eaten alive should I ever spar with a MT or some other kicking art practitioner.

    My question being, is it possible to learn decent kick defence on your own with a guide or perhaps with a short amount of instruction?
    Or am I going to have to suck it up and shell out cashy money for a few months of MT lessons.

    The only reason I ask this seemingly retarded question is that i'm a broke ass student tryin to save cash where I can (MT lessons are expensive around here :|) and kick defense seems like it would be fairly simple to pick up.

    I say suck it up and pay the money. Or, make friends with good kickers who don't mind rattling your cage on a regular basis.

    However, your style says boxing. Are we to assume you can afford that training? There is nothing wrong with sticking to boxing. But, if you have that paranoia of "OMFG! What if ... what if ... what if ... what if they kick me?" Just face facts: A good kicker will eat a good boxer alive, unless that boxer is a lot better at boxing than the kicker's ability to box. So, if you can only afford the boxing, get a lot better at boxing.

    I suggest starting by dumping the typical "in and out" game most amateurs use and commit yourself to learning an inside game. If you can constantly press forward and keep the gap short enough where a kicker cannot generate power, a good inside game, by itself, is not too bad of a kick defense. (If you also manage to pick up the distance awareness to stay a little further out than you would for punching, can close the gap quickly, and never bob and weave any lower than absolutely necessary, all the better.)

    Playing a strong inside game brings one problem: a lot of clinching. Unfortunately, boxing rules tend to encourage clinching and stalling. This generally results in a very unhappy day for you if your opponent is not playing by those rules and is versed in what to do here. It might be hard to pick up via boxing alone, but if you learn to upset your opponent's balance and learn to work out of the clinch instead of the typical tie up and stall waiting for the ref's break, you'll be much better off.

    Although some aren't, many of these "dirty boxing" tactics are actually legal or in a bit of a "grey area" with regard to the judging and the refereeing under boxing rules. But they seem to work reasonably well in more than a few cases outside of that rule set.

    (From the videos of her fighting, Annatrocity, who throws very few kicks even when allowed by the rule set, seems to be actually pretty good at staying out of a kicker's power range just by pressing forward and crowding, thus disrupting her opponents' opportunities to kick effectively.)
    Last edited by Tom Kagan; 11/30/2006 1:12pm at .
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
  9. billy sol hurok is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/30/2006 1:17pm

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     Style: age&treachery

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kagan
    I suggest starting by dumping the typical "in and out" game most amateurs use and commit yourself to learning an inside game. If you can constantly press forward and keep the gap short enough where a kicker cannot generate power, a good inside game, by itself, is not too bad of a kick defense. (If you also manage to pick up the distance awareness to stay a little further out than you would for punching, can close the gap quickly, and never bob and weave any lower than absolutely necessary, all the better.)

    Playing a strong inside game brings one problem: a lot of clinching. Unfortunately, boxing rules tend to encourage clinching and stalling. This generally results in a very unhappy day for you if your opponent is not playing by those rules and is versed in what to do here. It might be hard to pick up via boxing alone, but if you learn to upset your opponent's balance and learn to work out of the clinch instead of the typical tying up and stalling, you'll be much better off.
    Yes, but what about all those elbows and knees in/from the clinch? The OP did mention sparring w/ MT fighters . . . which brings us back to your (Tom's) first point: pay some money and get some instruction.
  10. Tom Kagan is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/30/2006 3:32pm

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     Style: Taai Si Ji Kung Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by billy sol hurok
    Yes, but what about all those elbows and knees in/from the clinch? The OP did mention sparring w/ MT fighters . . . which brings us back to your (Tom's) first point: pay some money and get some instruction.

    Effective knees and elbows are kind of hard to throw if you are off balance and also tied up in a way where your opponent can still strike you. Plus, a few sneaky elbows and even some knees do seem to 'accidentally' happen when practicing some of the finer points of 'dirty boxing.'

    But seriously dude, stop being so fucking paranoid. "What if ... what if ... what if ... what if he tries to knee and elbow me?" If he's going to worry so much about these things, then of course stop straight boxing. (Well, duh!) However:

    How does a boxer deal with another boxer? Punch, punch, punch, punch punch. Stick and move, stick and move, stick and move, ad infinitum.

    How does a boxer deal with anything else? Punch, punch, punch, punch punch. Stick and move, stick and move, stick and move, ad infinitum.


    He's a boxer who's already told us he's too much of a cheapskate to pay for anything more. The best advice you can give to someone like this is to stop worrying about everything and just enjoy what they are doing. So, he might as well become a lot better and more versatile of some of the finer points of more complete boxing while he's at it. Let fate deal with whatever outcome might be in the cards for him.



    EDIT: On second thought, my answers are predicated on the assumption he's actually studying and practicing boxing as opposed to a more typical "My father/brother/roomate has some gloves and we've mixed it up a few times. The school gym has a heavy bag I mess around with, too. Voila! I'm a boxer!"

    I'm going to stand by my dismissal of "What if" paranoia even so, however. People worry about this crap too much. Just enjoying and doing well whatever you are doing without delusions of granduer is usually enough to get you through most anything. And, when it's not enough, well ... it's just not your lucky day.

    Life takes us in strange directions and we rarely have enough time to do and enjoy more of what we want, anyway. Even if we choose to strive to train for as many MMA type scenarios as possible, this is still true.
    Last edited by Tom Kagan; 11/30/2006 3:59pm at .
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.

    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a ***** or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.
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