223543 Bullies, 3710 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 1 to 10 of 20
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. Shinshoryu is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Absurdisburgo
    Posts
    294

    Posted On:
    11/25/2006 12:23am


     Style: Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Aliveness Vs Sports training methodology

    So, the first time I came across this term "aliveness" was here on bullshido. I was talking to some friends about it (new to them too), and we all came to wonder if it was the same thing as sports training methodology (i.e. the common methods employed in sports to train and develop competition athletes) applied to martial arts. I've read many of the posts here regarding aliveness and searched over the internet (sadly, I don't have a Barnes & Noble anywhere around to deepen the search) and, even though I tend to think they are more or less the same, I wanted to ask those of you who are more acquainted with the term if there's something more to it?.
  2. Torakaka is offline
    Torakaka's Avatar

    Do you eat breakfast?

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Kaka village
    Posts
    10,658

    Posted On:
    11/25/2006 12:36am

    supporting member
     Style: Kitty Pow Pow!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    yeah, it's basically sports training repackaged with a tidy new word.
    Ranked #9 internationally at 118lbs by WIKBA http://www.womenkickboxing.com/wikba...rch%202009.htm
  3. Ke?poFist is offline
    Ke?poFist's Avatar

    Enforcer of Northeast Anti-Silliness Department Inc.

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    6,886

    Posted On:
    11/25/2006 12:43am

    supporting member
     Style: Kaju, BJJ, Judo, Kempo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Not sure if this is the right section for it, but I'll take a crack at this before its moved.

    Aliveness is not the same as sports training, but sports training relies on aliveness. It's like the "not all Germans are Nazi's, but all Nazi's are German" line... Aliveness is Germany, and Sports fighters are Nazis (did I just lose the thread? Dammit!).

    The concept of Aliveness is to progressively add resistance to your repertoire of techniques to pressure test them and gain ability. Whether those techniques be striking with hands or feet, grappling submissions, clinching takedowns, or even weapons training, "live"drilling, integrating, and sparring are all necessary.

    With Sports training, although "Aliveness" is necessary, only those techniques or tools necessary to win the given competition or sport are required. In Muay Thai, you have no need to learn how to defend a triangle, and in Judo perfecting your inside thigh kicks is quite unnecessary. So although sports training requires "aliveness" it is not aliveness in itself.

    I suggest youtube searching for Matt Thorntons video and perhaps reading some articles at onedragon.com and the SBG site.
    Knowing is not enough, you must apply...
    ...Willing is not enough you must do
    ~Bruce Lee

  4. Ke?poFist is offline
    Ke?poFist's Avatar

    Enforcer of Northeast Anti-Silliness Department Inc.

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    6,886

    Posted On:
    11/25/2006 12:44am

    supporting member
     Style: Kaju, BJJ, Judo, Kempo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kidspatula
    yeah, it's basically sports training repackaged with a tidy new word.
    There I go trying to type a well thought out response, and you go with that.....feh
    Knowing is not enough, you must apply...
    ...Willing is not enough you must do
    ~Bruce Lee

  5. Torakaka is offline
    Torakaka's Avatar

    Do you eat breakfast?

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Kaka village
    Posts
    10,658

    Posted On:
    11/25/2006 12:50am

    supporting member
     Style: Kitty Pow Pow!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    you're overthinking this crap.
    Ranked #9 internationally at 118lbs by WIKBA http://www.womenkickboxing.com/wikba...rch%202009.htm
  6. Ke?poFist is offline
    Ke?poFist's Avatar

    Enforcer of Northeast Anti-Silliness Department Inc.

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    6,886

    Posted On:
    11/25/2006 1:16am

    supporting member
     Style: Kaju, BJJ, Judo, Kempo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kidspatula
    you're overthinking this crap.
    Just like a sportfighter to take such a simplistic view of the beauty and art of two humans engaged in barehanded mortal combat. You don't know what you're missing out on. To use overly intellectual verbiage to make yourself appear more knowledgeable than you really are....that is the true meaning of "art" in martial arts.
    Knowing is not enough, you must apply...
    ...Willing is not enough you must do
    ~Bruce Lee

  7. MacWombat is offline

    BJJ Suckee

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Westchester, NY / Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    2,131

    Posted On:
    11/25/2006 4:00am


     Style: Relson GJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by KempoFist
    Just like a sportfighter to take such a simplistic view of the beauty and art of two humans engaged in barehanded mortal combat. You don't know what you're missing out on. To use overly intellectual verbiage to make yourself appear more knowledgeable than you really are....that is the true meaning of "art" in martial arts.
    People think the art Ben Cole has mastered is Taijitsu (well not really), but the has really mastered this art.
  8. Shinshoryu is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Absurdisburgo
    Posts
    294

    Posted On:
    11/25/2006 6:39am


     Style: Aikido

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kidspatula
    yeah, it's basically sports training repackaged with a tidy new word.
    I was thinking just about the same but I really didn't want to be the one to say it. Besides, I also found an interesting phenomenon that tended to defy my generalization, that is, there are martial arts considered sports and yet not considered "alive" (e.g. TKD), which made think that maybe there is a certain amount of perceived effectiveness related to this concept and not so much to sports training methodology, but again, these are MA and not baseball so, maybe is just inherent to that "effectiveness" fact and not to the aliveness concept, maybe is just a thing of this particular MA (the exception to the rule???). Although (and to answer my own question) in non-combat sports you also have to be effective, it's just effectiveness in another way.

    P.S to everyone: Please, I'm not trying to turn this into a "TKD sucks" threat, thanks.


    Quote Originally Posted by KempoFist
    The concept of Aliveness is to progressively add resistance to your repertoire of techniques to pressure test them and gain ability. Whether those techniques be striking with hands or feet, grappling submissions, clinching takedowns, or even weapons training, "live"drilling, integrating, and sparring are all necessary...
    So far this is what I had understood, in fact, I think you could extend those same words on the first paragraph to non-combat sports (like basketball, football, swimming...) and it still would apply.


    Quote Originally Posted by KempoFist
    ...With Sports training, although "Aliveness" is necessary, only those techniques or tools necessary to win the given competition or sport are required. In Muay Thai, you have no need to learn how to defend a triangle, and in Judo perfecting your inside thigh kicks is quite unnecessary. So although sports training requires "aliveness" it is not aliveness in itself...
    Here is where I' m not quite sure if I understand, and if I do, I don't agree. What I get here is, taking your own example, that Muay Thai fighters don't learn how to grapple because they don't need it to win their type of competition, Judoka don't learn how to kick & strike for the very same reason, since they have those weaknesses they are only sports but not alive???. From which derives another question, are only MMA (which cover those weaknesses) the only MA alive?.

    Quote Originally Posted by KempoFist
    ...I suggest youtube searching for Matt Thorntons video and perhaps reading some articles at onedragon.com and the SBG site.
    I've already seen some of his videos, and because he looked more like my swim team coach than a martial arts instructor I started to have these crazy ideas. :icon_lol:
    I'll see the page after I finish this post. Thanks.
  9. pauli is offline

    i keep tryin to spar, but nothin happens!

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    herndon, va, usa
    Posts
    3,521

    Posted On:
    11/25/2006 7:04am

    supporting member
     Style: karate / bjj

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What I get here is, taking your own example, that Muay Thai fighters don't learn how to grapple because they don't need it to win their type of competition, Judoka don't learn how to kick & strike for the very same reason, since they have those weaknesses they are only sports but not alive???
    huh?

    proper judo (or mt, etc) is 'alive' because every single technique used under the ruleset is trained in an 'alive' manner. whether or not that ruleset covers striking, grappling, takedowns, tea ceremony or trampolines doesn't (directly) bear on whether or not the training is "alive."

    there are martial arts considered sports and yet not considered "alive" (e.g. TKD), which made think that maybe there is a certain amount of perceived effectiveness related to this concept and not so much to sports training methodology
    you need to differentiate between tkd as in "we kick the air and do poomse, KIYAP!" and "we are a competitive sport tkd school." the former is generally dead training, and the latter is usually quite 'alive.' suckitude does not preclude 'aliveness.'
  10. Odacon is offline
    Odacon's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Dublin
    Posts
    3,627

    Posted On:
    11/25/2006 7:42am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Bits and pieces

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Aliveness is just a nice advertising gimmick, but actually delivers. There's one or two matt thornton videos floating around here where he explains it's nothing new, he's just putting his own spin on it.
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.