W. Hock Hochheim

**oldman34** · Posted On: 11/29/2006 10:40am

Originally Posted by Don Gwinn

Yeah, I finally got there today. Here's what Hock said in response when someone asked if he'd done Shooto:

So the answer to my question above is, yes, he did train with real grapplers rather than just throwing something out there--at least at some point. I didn't see Hock explain that the techniques RoninPimp pointed out were from a time prior to all that training, but it makes sense. Who would advocate that stuff after training with Gracies and Machados?

So what we can take it as is, he had had grappling training, but it hasnt transfered (well) over to mixing with disarm techniques. Maybe he is applying his new knowledge of grappling with his old disarm techniques. I wish I could train with the Gracies and Machados. Must be nice. Of course they would take my Gi from me.

Originally Posted by Don Gwinn

I'll point out again, too, that the knife seminar I took was not from Hock but from one of "his" instructors. I doubt Hock could pick this man out of a crowd. I do think it would be nice if he had a little better control of who is and is not his representative; the way the instructor explained it was that instructors study from video tapes and then travel to Hock for training/skill test seminars where they test to advance. This did not inspire confidence. On the other hand, I had only his word for that.

I agree, he should be more in control of who uses his name. In the end, its either trust in his testings thoroughness or dont pass out certificates.

**RoninPimp** · Posted On: 11/29/2006 12:08pm

-The problem with Hock's quote is that it seems to try and stretch his experiance. In 1987 Vunak was a newb in grappling. So I doubt he had a lot of grappling knowledge to pass on. By all accounts the Machados put on an excellent seminar but, going to seminars only is a very slow way to build skill. And how many seminars did he attend? Enough to earn rank?And who the hell is Terry Gibson? And is Jim McCann a grappling expert?

What he learned might not have "addressed the real street problems" he saw, but it seems like he barely scratched the surface of grappling to me. It sure as hell didn't stop him from cranking out the grappling videos though....

**oldman34** · Posted On: 11/29/2006 3:11pm

Originally Posted by RoninPimp

-The problem with Hock's quote is that it seems to try and stretch his experiance. In 1987 Vunak was a newb in grappling. So I doubt he had a lot of grappling knowledge to pass on. By all accounts the Machados put on an excellent seminar but, going to seminars only is a very slow way to build skill. And how many seminars did he attend? Enough to earn rank?And who the hell is Terry Gibson? And is Jim McCann a grappling expert?

What he learned might not have "addressed the real street problems" he saw, but it seems like he barely scratched the surface of grappling to me. It sure as hell didn't stop him from cranking out the grappling videos though....

I defer to your knowledge on this one. The BJJ Brown Belt tag speaks for your expertise in this area.

**Permalost** · Posted On: 11/29/2006 3:12pm

So his material changes and evolves with time. Thats cool I guess. Wait a minute, wasn't AR complaining about the Dog Brothers and Gabe Suarez doing the same thing with the Die Less Often video?

**RoninPimp** · Posted On: 11/29/2006 3:25pm

The thread at Hock's forum that was started by ar549 to bash Bullshido disappeared soon after I registered. I barely got a chance to read any of it. Hmmmmm....

**kajukine** · Posted On: 5/17/2009 7:09pm

Wow....I am a nubee to this forum, and this is an ooooold thread, and after what I have read I'll probably regret posting, but here goes anyway....

I HAVE trained with Hock, for 10 years, every chance I get, and he admits his ground skills are not that great, but then again what LEO WANTS to go to the ground, so he DID bring in Jim McCann to work WITH him on many seminars, There is a REASON LEO and military units WANT him all over the globe, His material is better than what they are taught, is it perfect? maybe not in your opinion, but are you a VN vet? were you a LEO undercover and homiside for 25+ years?
(by you I mean anybody that have not trained with him that are bashing him)
as one of his representatives I have taught LEO that have used the material to SAVE THEIR LIVES!! Hock's stuff may not be perfect in your eyes, but in many who use this material daily love him.... just my thoughts....and 40+ yrs of MA training opinion, which im sure wont mean much here.....

**milwaukee cop** · Posted On: 5/17/2009 8:11pm

LEO have to take combative arrests to the GROUND, once there they have to CONTROL them to cuff them! this requires GRAPPLING!
Guess what ? weapon retention is also a grappling skill. BJJ is a Valuable skill set for these areas. BJJ is not "just" pulling guard, same can be said for wrestling, judo, and sambo.
I find it rather amusing that most DAAT tapes cover strikes and come along holds, when most arrests "look" more like wrestling, and a struggle for the officer to get a dominate position.
just my .02 cents

**chiangmaiwolf** · Posted On: 5/28/2009 4:59pm

I had his VHS tape of SDMS baton system. I was a baton instructor during my career in NY corrections, and I think his training tape was a pretty good course which stressed the basics, which I think are important.

**Bugeisha** · Posted On: 5/29/2009 8:05am

Originally Posted by kajukine

...but are you a VN vet? were you a LEO undercover and homiside for 25+ years?

No, but I can spell homicide.

**Don Gwinn** · Posted On: 5/29/2009 9:12am

Wow . . . . it never dies.

Kajukine, the guy must offer something people like, but I can only evaluate what I was taught. It was terrible and it was taught badly. It wasn't taught by Hockheim, but by a "certified" instructor. I am not impressed with what I know of Hockheim's certification methods; they seem to rely heavily on the certified instructor having bought a lot of Hockheim video tapes. That's all I'm saying.