W. Hock Hochheim

**ar549** · Posted On: 11/26/2006 9:21am

Originally Posted by Red Elvis

Bryan,

That is awesome that you are willing to do this. Were I in Dallas I would take you up in a heartbeat. In the interest of being fair. The Dog Brothers and Gabe Suarez are having a similar seminar on January 27-28, 2007 called:

Wouldn't it be interesting for the same people to attend both seminars as a basis of comparison? Although the distance is extreme, if you are footing the bill...

Alternately, you could have one person attend the Dallas seminar and do a write-up and another attend the Cali seminar and do a write-up. Thoughts?

I would not piss on Gabe and Marc if they were on fire!

Here is Gabes gun class for free, Take all the guns you got and walk towards the paper Arab emptying every gun then pull out a big knive and slam it into the paper Arab for a certificate.

Blasting off a bunch of ammo is a new and exciting experiance for lots of guys, they are easy to impress with a little vaudville act and some tough talking. I know they are full of **** and one of the posters before already stated those in the LEO community know he has a reputation for shooting dogs and writing it up as something else. How fucking ironic that he has the reputation of a dog killer and now is a dog brother.

I have ate dogs both in Korea and in Laos , It never tasted good to me,
consuming dog **** is even less appealing!

:mumum::mumum::mumum::mumum::mumum::mumum::mumum:

**ar549** · Posted On: 11/26/2006 9:30am

Originally Posted by RoninPimp

There is video of Hock himself on every link I posted. He moves like he is clueless on the ground.

Its cool to say anything you want but you dont have to be a smart ass about it. Tone it down to the level your at now and look a little deeper into what hes doing. The guy teaching his ground stuff now is aproved by Mark Hatmaker from what I understand but Im well out of that loop. In my present situation the last thing you ever want to do is go to the ground , but thats only this situation. Im looking for a fulltuime Grappling guy who wants to learn Muay Thai so they can come over here and teach, learn, and fight.

***Plasma*** · Posted On: 11/26/2006 9:54am

Guys ar549 posted this thread, why is it still being taken seriously. Ar549 please move over to Pax.

**Red Elvis** · Posted On: 11/26/2006 10:36am

Originally Posted by ar549

I would not piss on Gabe and Marc if they were on fire!

Here is Gabes gun class for free, Take all the guns you got and walk towards the paper Arab emptying every gun then pull out a big knive and slam it into the paper Arab for a certificate.

Blasting off a bunch of ammo is a new and exciting experiance for lots of guys, they are easy to impress with a little vaudville act and some tough talking. I know they are full of **** and one of the posters before already stated those in the LEO community know he has a reputation for shooting dogs and writing it up as something else. How fucking ironic that he has the reputation of a dog killer and now is a dog brother.

I have ate dogs both in Korea and in Laos , It never tasted good to me,
consuming dog **** is even less appealing!

:mumum::mumum::mumum::mumum::mumum::mumum::mumum:

You wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire... Interesting statement and very interesting even more so because you claim to be religious. A muslim pissing on a buring Christian. I'll leave that one alone. :godtroll:

Here's a couple quick points about your point of view:

1. So all you know about what he teaches is a clip that you have seen from the Die Less Often promo. That is your basis of his "crap"?

2. You back that up with "Don Gwuin (sp) mentioned there is debate about him on an LEO website"? Sure there is, but there are also LEO's that train with him. There is a ton of debate about Hoch being to old and outdated too. Yet you stand by him do you not? You even said it yourself that your "friend" Tom Solis from Amok has nothing good to say about Hoch. Yet he still teaches good stuff in your opinion.

3. Gabe Suarez is not a Dog Brother. You get that title from fighting in many Gatherings which Gabe does not do.

4. Now he's shooting dogs and writing it up as something else? Like what, I killed this dog but I will wright it up as a human for my future video street cred? Think your changing that one a little no?

But, your "facts" aside, you are entitled to your opinion and I can respect that.

**ar549** · Posted On: 11/26/2006 12:15pm

Originally Posted by Red Elvis

You wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire... Interesting statement and very interesting even more so because you claim to be religious. A muslim pissing on a buring Christian. I'll leave that one alone. :godtroll:

Here's a couple quick points about your point of view:

1. So all you know about what he teaches is a clip that you have seen from the Die Less Often promo. That is your basis of his "crap"?

2. You back that up with "Don Gwuin (sp) mentioned there is debate about him on an LEO website"? Sure there is, but there are also LEO's that train with him. There is a ton of debate about Hoch being to old and outdated too. Yet you stand by him do you not? You even said it yourself that your "friend" Tom Solis from Amok has nothing good to say about Hoch. Yet he still teaches good stuff in your opinion.

3. Gabe Suarez is not a Dog Brother. You get that title from fighting in many Gatherings which Gabe does not do.

4. Now he's shooting dogs and writing it up as something else? Like what, I killed this dog but I will wright it up as a human for my future video street cred? Think your changing that one a little no?

But, your "facts" aside, you are entitled to your opinion and I can respect that.

You screwed that up to, I said I would not piss on them if they were on fire:blob8:

Tom is fineshed with this bullshit so you can leave him out of it, Let me clarify though first. Tom has never said anything about Hocks training stuff to me. Never had anything bad to say about it for that matter. Its more of a personal and regional issue, Tom being the back east guy with lots of students and Hock being a Texas guy with lots of students. They dont care for each others jokes and will not be working together.

I would like to see some evidence of legitimate sources making statements about Hock being to old, If you can produce anything valid I would be shocked, I think your pulling that straight out of your ass if you want to know.

At this point you have no respect from me, You attacked my post concerning Marc the first time when you dont know what your talking about. You started a thread questioning my reputation and using my real name like you were outing me. You have evidently been talking about this on other forums and to Marc and he never bothered to tell you himself that he and his friends Gabe and Elmore disrespected me first before I ever took a verbal piss on them. Im actually glad it happend this way because I dont have to hang around and later find they are bullshitters, I found it out early and they did me a favor.

When they treated me disrespectfully they had a good laugh about it and it boosted their rep with the Intertwats, I guess we can call Gabe the Supreme Intertwat Commander . They thought they were dealing with some little punk and decided to get rude, well **** them. This is Bryan Lee saying **** Marc, Rudy, Gabe, and their fluffer Phil Elmoreand **** their tall talking and threats they have made!

Hell I had to explain to Rudy who is a socalled expert how to test a Kill Knife. I dont think he even knew what it was or heard of it befor I explained it for him. He was reccomending a knife with no gaurd to a guy as a primary fixed blade for Iraq, Below is his dumbass website. Look at the stupidity it displays, A total dumbass.

Heres a guy with 25 years at the US Marshals who I had to explain how to choose a Kill Knife to. Then tell him to test the thing before you need to use it. A guy who has never tested a knife with his resume. The knife forum he moderates was my suggestion in the first place and he has never contributed anything to it. For sure he never posted pictures of animals he was killing with knives because he has never killed anything with a knife which is something I do on a regular basis. One of my best friends is a butcher so he is killing animals every morning, I can test knives anytime I go over, we restrain them and cut their throats then let the blood pump out. Then cut them all up until the knife goes dull, thats how I satisfy the human factor and estimate how many fatel cuts will come from a paticular knife.

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**RoninPimp** · Posted On: 11/26/2006 12:37pm

Originally Posted by ar549

Its cool to say anything you want but you dont have to be a smart ass about it. Tone it down to the level your at now and look a little deeper into what hes doing. The guy teaching his ground stuff now is aproved by Mark Hatmaker from what I understand but Im well out of that loop. In my present situation the last thing you ever want to do is go to the ground , but thats only this situation. Im looking for a fulltuime Grappling guy who wants to learn Muay Thai so they can come over here and teach, learn, and fight.

-Tone it down and look deeper at what? Hock, based on video he posted on his website, is not qualified in any way to give advice to anyone on groundfighting. He does not know what he is talking about on the subject. No one said anything about wanting to go to the ground. Please don't use that strawman. Hock's video on his website shows lame techniques on how to escape a headlock. Anyone could spend 6 months at a BJJ club and know better ways to escape.

**Red Elvis** · Posted On: 11/26/2006 1:19pm

Originally Posted by ar549

[CENTER]
At this point you have no respect from me, You attacked my post concerning Marc the first time when you dont know what your talking about. You started a thread questioning my reputation and using my real name like you were outing me. You have evidently been talking about this on other forums and to Marc and he never bothered to tell you himself that he and his friends Gabe and Elmore disrespected me first before I ever took a verbal piss on them. Im actually glad it happend this way because I dont have to hang around and later find they are bullshitters, I found it out early and they did me a favor.

For clarification I have done everything right here in the open and on Hoch's site with you in the open. I have not talked to Marc regarding the issue. No secrete conversations, no lies, no mistruths, no smoke and no mirrors. I am not you and for you to project your actions onto me is funny. I have nothing to hide. You do. I have not told them here about your "credentials" but have now directed them to where you have provided them yourself at Hoch's forum.

Actually I take that back. I just PM'd Don Guinn a quick synopsis of our conversation at Hoch's site. So, that qualifies as a "behind the scenes" action. My bad.

Now, as I said there, I am done. Mission complete.

Thanks,
Red

edit: To be fair, they are not "credentials" as much as it is information that he presented about himself that would answer some of our questions.

Also, I aplogize to you Don for sending you something via IM. Again, my bad.

**Cdnronin** · Posted On: 11/26/2006 2:09pm

I must admit to being confused when it comes to Hock, some people whose opinions I respect think highly of him, others definitely don't. I have seen many articles by him that leave me scratching my head. I remember one where he suggested using a chair for knife defense. So far so good. Except his suggestion was to break the chair so you could use the legs as kali sticks. His defense against eye gouges? Wearing sunglasses, or the famous Three Stooges hand between the eyes. Weird transitions from handgun to long gun.

I had several tapes of Hock, dumped them on eBay. Talk about a waste of tape! Explaining the 12 angles of attack by demonstrating the angles from both sides, as well as what the angles look like from the rear.

I have not gone to a Hock seminar, so I am only referring to what I have read or seen, but nothing I have seen has convinced me I should go out of my way to attend a seminar. Your mileage may vary.

**Boyd** · Posted On: 11/26/2006 5:25pm

Originally Posted by RoninPimp

-Tone it down and look deeper at what? Hock, based on video he posted on his website, is not qualified in any way to give advice to anyone on groundfighting. He does not know what he is talking about on the subject. No one said anything about wanting to go to the ground. Please don't use that strawman. Hock's video on his website shows lame techniques on how to escape a headlock. Anyone could spend 6 months at a BJJ club and know better ways to escape.

So? His material may or may not have been at one point vaguely approved by superstar crappler MARK HATMAKER of SAVAGE STRIKES fame. Your post is invalid and Hock is a hero. End of discussion.