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  1. shovelbum is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/21/2006 7:25pm


     Style: euro renaissance

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Just started weight program

    So after a few sessions of just sort of making stuff up as I went along in the weight room, I decided to follow a plan for a workout for the first time today. I haven't had a chance to pick up Starting Strength which I have seen reference to in another thread, but I do have The Complete Idiot's Guide to Weight Training by Deidre Johnson-Cane, Jonathan Cane, and Joe Glickman. I used a suggested list of exercises for martial artists from the sport specificity chapter.

    Here's what I did:
    leg press
    leg curl
    abduction
    adduction
    lat pull-down
    dumbbell row
    bench press
    dips
    mil press
    lat raises
    seated bicep curl
    tricep kickback
    reverse crunch
    crunch
    oblique crunch
    back raise
    then some neck stuff (flexion, extension, and lateral flexion)

    It took me an hour and a half to get through it which was a bit longer than I had planned. The only real problem that I had physically was doing dips and military presses after going to muscle failure on the bench press. I did three sets of 10-12 reps on most exercises except the crunches that I went to 15-20 on. My upper body strength is quite wanting, so I went to muscle failure the easiest on those. I adapted the weight to whatever would get me at least 8 reps before crying. Time between sets was 60 seconds until I saw that I was going to be there longer than I'd planned, so I sped up a bit.

    I'd like to not split the workout up so I don't have to go to the gym more than three days a week, so I'll just suck it up on the time. As long as my wife knows she has to watch the boy that long it'll be ok.

    Any suggestions on this or additions/subtractions?

    Thanks.
  2. RunningDog is offline
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    nail conditioning

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    Posted On:
    11/21/2006 8:00pm


     Style: Rehab

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Whaddya bench?
  3. shovelbum is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/21/2006 8:43pm


     Style: euro renaissance

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I haven't tried to max out. I usually do my sets at 135...so not much.
  4. PhilipOs is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/21/2006 9:36pm


     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Looks good to me! I would know becuase im th3 man.
  5. Marrt is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/21/2006 11:57pm


     Style: default std

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Per Hannibal's reply. If you're doing this for strength, do some compound exercises to establish your base - less reps, less time, more weight. Do that consistently for 3 months then try a rotation of isolation or isolation/compound mixed.

    You add the isolation stuff after the fact, when you figure out what your weak spots/focus areas are, e.g. for me, I can get away with training legs once a week, but hitting arms twice a week makes a big difference.
    Plus if you're hitting isolation exercises straight out of the gate you might build point strength but create imbalances and weak points.

    my two cents,
    cheers
  6. PirateJon is offline
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    and good morning to you too

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    Posted On:
    11/22/2006 7:41am

    supporting member
     Style: MT/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by shovelbum
    I haven't had a chance to pick up Starting Strength
    You should really try to get that.
    You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there.
  7. Slydermv is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/22/2006 11:47am


     Style: WTF TKD, BJJ/MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm starting new as well and this is the program I have which seems to be working. I'm working all muscles and can get through all the exersizes twice in about 45 mins. Works me up a good sweat too. I started with larger breaks, but I find limiting them to 15-30 seconds really gets me breathing hard.

    I do one set, 8-10 reps to failure. If I reach ten reps, I increase weight for my next training day about 5-10 percent and try to work to that 10 again. Then I repeat from the top. I also keep all my weights loged and mark down improvements so I can get in and get out quick since I have a limited time

    Squats (quads)
    Hamstring extensions (like seated leg exts but backwards?) (hams)
    Leg Extensions (quads) added
    Calf Raises (calves)
    Seated Row (back)
    Seated Chest Press (chest)
    Lat Pull Down (Lats)
    Curls (bis)
    Tri Extensions (Tri's)
    Rotary Chest (chest) added
    Cruches (abs)
    Alternate Heel Touchers (abs)

    I've been going for 3 weeks now and will likely take a break in a week or two and rearrange my exersizes so my body dosen't get used to doing the same thing.

    It looks lke our work outs are similar but you just have more exersizes. If you want a shorter time... I would cut out exersizes that work the same muscles.
  8. War Wizard is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/22/2006 12:33pm


     Style: Judo - Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    You say all you've got access to are machines, so my next question is, what part of Southwest VA are you in? I'm from that area originally and I know where all the decent gyms are at.

    Edit: If you've got a little cash (it doesn't take much) you can set up a garage gym and trust me, you'll save quite a bit in the long run.
    Last edited by War Wizard; 11/22/2006 12:35pm at .
    "Keep a sharp knife, shiny boots and be on time."
  9. sdave is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/22/2006 1:26pm

    supporting member
     Style: Muay Thai, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by shovelbum
    Here's what I did:
    As you're probably aware, the progression of those exercises follows a pattern, from the lower body up, from compound movements to isolation movements, from larger muscle groups to smaller muscles, working antagonistic muscle groups together.

    All sound principles and it looks like a fairly comprehensive list.

    As others have pointed out, it's a lot of work. Especially for a novice.

    Some of our pro fighters do a similar workout with bodyweight exercises and it seems to be effective. However, I've never seen (or conducted) a study to evaluate it's specific efficacy for fighters vs a more traditional strength training program. It is possible that a sort of whole body neuro-muscular overload offers some sport specific conditioning... Quien Sabe?

    It's very likely that (at this stage) you could still see good gains with a simple 3 way split that would keep you at the gym the same 3 days a week, and for a much shorter period.

    Working from that list, maybe something like:

    Day 1
    Leg Press (Prefer Squats or Hack Squats)
    Leg Curl
    Calves could go here

    Adduction/Abduction SEEM like MA specific exercises, but that's probably not where you should be developing the power in your kick. Thai kick the bag for an hour at home on leg day instead (perhaps before you go, so as not to screw up your technique with muscular fatigue).

    Day 2
    Lat Pulldows (prefer wide grip pullups)
    Dumbell Rows
    Back Raise could go here or with crunches, whenever you do them
    Deadlift could go on this day probably first
    Biceps Curls

    [Pedantry]

    :profe:

    Biceps, Tripecs, and Quadriceps should always be pluralised, even when referring to one arm or leg. As with most names for anatomical structures, they are Latin terms referring to the number of 'heads' or origins for the muscles in question. A 'single' biceps has TWO heads (bi=two, ceps=head), the long head originates from the supraglenoid tubercle, and the short head originates from the coracoid process. The triceps has THREE heads, etc...

    [/Pedantry]



    Day 3
    Bench
    Mil Press
    Dips
    Lying Triceps Press might be more effective in this case than Triceps Kickbacks
    Triceps Pressdowns might be a nice addition here

    There was a lot of shoulder work on the list. While you DO need to keep your hands up in MA, that's a lot of time to spend on a small group that gets hit during a lot of other exercises.

    Much of the ab stuff you can work in at home. If there's a Roman Chair at the gym, then that might be a good time for the back raises.

    If there are neck machines at the gym, you might stick them in on Leg day, as it's a bit shorter. If not, bridges can be useful. Start slowly, a neck owie will put you out for awhile.

    Keep a log and let us know how it goes!
    Last edited by sdave; 11/22/2006 1:33pm at .
    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by jnp
    That is exactly what I meant sdave. You are dead on, as usual.
  10. shovelbum is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/23/2006 10:50am


     Style: euro renaissance

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for all the advice everyone. The first thing I'm going to do is cut down the chest exercises to just bench presses for now.

    Although I agree with sdave's anaylsis of adduction/abduction exercises, I'm going to keep them in because I think they help with keeping the wide, low stance that we use in longsword fighting. I don't do a kicking art anymore, so I don't kick the bag.

    As far as my weight access; I am going to the gym at the college where my wife teaches. They have plenty of machines and freeweights. I'd like to stick with the freeweights, but since I don't have a spotter there with me I shouldn't do something like the bench press for safety reasons. I'm doing mostly machines now, but I'll start switching to more barbell work.

    Hitman, I'm in Abingdon. I've contacted a gym nearby, but I don't have to pay at my wife's school, so it just works out for me. I'd still like to hear your recommendations.

    Thanks again guys, this has been very useful.
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