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  1. TehDeadlyDimMak is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    11/20/2006 9:44pm


     Style: Sanda, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Personally I think many WC groups will metamorphasize into RBSD styles like Krav Maga. The anti-grapple trend is has already reared its hideous head in response to modern MMA.

    Hopefully I'll be wrong and this won't happen.
  2. supercrap is offline
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    Founder/GrandSensei of Joint British / Papua New Guinean Non-contact Lawn Bowls Jiu Jitsu Committee

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    Posted On:
    11/20/2006 11:45pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Do we need to add "raw sewage" to the glass and lava list?

    Sorry, please continue rationally discussing wing chun.
    Imports from Japan, Shipping Worldwide! Art Junkie, Scramble, BJJ Spirits, Reversal...
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  3. K-Ron is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/21/2006 6:20am


     Style: Wing Chun, Ju Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think what set's WT apart from most martial arts I know about or have studied is that it isn't derived from some ancient art designed to be used in the battle field. I can't talk about othere CMA's but I think most Japanese MA's are based on fighting an armoured opponent. This si apparently why grappling was originally used. If you strike someone in armor your more liable to hurt yourself but if you throw your opponent you'll do loads more damage and can then follow up with weapon's or even disable your opponent by attacking a joint as these wouldn't be armoured.

    Anyway back to the real topic. Wing Tsun is designed to beat and unarmed opponent of another chinese style. I belive this is why WC may be struggling at the moment. I think the first part of the evoulution for WC should be a more alive stance. The majority of WC vids i've seen show the guy in typical stance which just invites a swing attack which aren't the easiest attacks to deal with. I belive WC would cope alot better if the hands tracked the opponents upper arms as this allows for a more rapid counter and makes covering an opponents attack far more effective. I have tried this in sparring (light to medium, not got the equipment to do hard sparring yet) against a black belt in Karate and it appears to work. Anyway give it try. I'm sure other chunners have some ideas on how to improve things so lets stop talking about history cause we all got an idea on how things came around but we should be looking foward, so lets do it. Try it tell us bout it.
  4. M1K3 is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/21/2006 8:22am


     Style: submission grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TehDeadlyDimMak
    Personally I think many WC groups will metamorphasize into RBSD styles like Krav Maga. The anti-grapple trend is has already reared its hideous head in response to modern MMA.

    Hopefully I'll be wrong and this won't happen.
    I agree. But the ones that don't go give in to the dark side, what will they look like?

    Also, yeah we now have to add raw sewage to the glass and lava. However as a dirt fighter I LIKE rolling in raw sewage. In fact at my current school Mondays are 'Raw Sewage Night'. :rolleyes:
  5. PirateJon is offline
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    and good morning to you too

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    Posted On:
    11/21/2006 11:28am

    supporting member
     Style: MT/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The best thing about this thread is the tags.
    You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there.
  6. RunningDog is offline
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    nail conditioning

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    Posted On:
    11/21/2006 6:56pm


     Style: Rehab

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by K-Ron
    I think what set's WT apart from most martial arts I know about or have studied is that it isn't derived from some ancient art designed to be used in the battle field. I can't talk about othere CMA's but I think most Japanese MA's are based on fighting an armoured opponent. This si apparently why grappling was originally used. If you strike someone in armor your more liable to hurt yourself but if you throw your opponent you'll do loads more damage and can then follow up with weapon's or even disable your opponent by attacking a joint as these wouldn't be armoured.

    Anyway back to the real topic. Wing Tsun is designed to beat and unarmed opponent of another chinese style. I belive this is why WC may be struggling at the moment. I think the first part of the evoulution for WC should be a more alive stance. The majority of WC vids i've seen show the guy in typical stance which just invites a swing attack which aren't the easiest attacks to deal with. I belive WC would cope alot better if the hands tracked the opponents upper arms as this allows for a more rapid counter and makes covering an opponents attack far more effective. I have tried this in sparring (light to medium, not got the equipment to do hard sparring yet) against a black belt in Karate and it appears to work. Anyway give it try. I'm sure other chunners have some ideas on how to improve things so lets stop talking about history cause we all got an idea on how things came around but we should be looking foward, so lets do it. Try it tell us bout it.
    A much better idea, would be for the thread to die, and for you to quit _ing _un and do something else. Why try to improve it? Seriously? Why not follow that old chun principle of taking the path of least resistance, and take up boxing or something. Do it. You'll thank me.
  7. K-Ron is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/22/2006 4:23am


     Style: Wing Chun, Ju Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If you paid attention to what other peoples profiles you'd notice I already do Ju Jitsu as well. And I used to do kick boxing, I still do wing cause I enjoy the training and i still see the benifits of it. It may or moy not work in a street fight but as people keep saying the principles are good. Also since I started wing tsun i'm faster I have better accuracy and my balance is alot better. I'd say thats a good enough reason to keep training. When I feel I'm no longer benifiting from the training then I'll quit. We each have are own paths to walk so try and concentrate on where your walking before you trip over your own feet.
  8. Tonuzaba is offline
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    C.E. B.S.net Ambassador

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    Posted On:
    11/22/2006 5:01am

    supporting member
     Style: (Beautiful) Spring Roll

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    RunningDog]Tuna, _ing _un threads go to **** because chunners repeat the same old arguments ad vomitum.
    Futokutya, if you'd be honest, you'd write: EVERYBODY repeats the same old arguments ad vomitum. It is a double edge weapon, wing chun bashing, you know. For example like with me: you guys go - video, video, video, I go - go there, go there, go there.

    These thoughts of yours I agree with fully:
    wing chun ... was conceived to defeat the prevailing styles in China of that period. These were largely standup kung fu styles, that had certain things in common like low stances, lunge punches etc, in short, fairly restrictive and traditional in their movements. Wing Chun was groundbreaking at the time, its shapes and stances were created to beat this styles by being 'led' by your opponent's movements, and to take the path of least resistance. Good principles.
    These are the ideas that guys like you keep repeating:
    The trouble is, it only works if your opponent is practising either one of these traditional styles, or is less good at wing chun. The body shapes and movements don't work against a wider, and freer, variety of attacks, or grappling. So now it's like learning Latin, it has certain benefits, but little or no application in the real world.
    Funny thing is it took you so long to realize. How come? Didn't you try and spar with people who use modern language during all those years?
    What exactly is so "dead language" according to you about one of the most important principles of WT, i.e. to attack viciously and continuosly as the best means of defence? With your experience as an EWTO instructor do you have no knowledge of the changes/modifications WT went through even after GM Leung Ting started to spread the system around the world? There are even WT techniques that have changed/varied based on the simple fact that most Europeans are taller than the Chinese...
    Tonuzaba
  9. Virus is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/22/2006 6:05am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This isn't directed at anyone specific but if you are training in an alive art, with t3h _ing _un on the side and claim improvements during alive performance in that alive art, it may not be the _ing which is responsible for it. If you are training you are going to be getting better anyway and there's no way to isolate t3h _ing as the causal agent. This is a common fallacy that we are highly supceptable to in our thinking.
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