11/18/2006 7:43pm, #1
Gun newbie is tentatively looking to purchase a weapon, needs help.
While I'm qualified to shoot an M-16, and am familiar with a wide variety of military weapons, I don't really know much about weapons in the civilian world.
I am tentatively looking for two weapons:
1.) A carbine and/or assault rifle.
Purpose: To shoot for fun, MAYBE to hunt (but I seriously doubt it), and I guess home defense or some such nonsense.
Size: More compact = better, but I am willing to sacrifice size for functionality. I should also point out that I am 6'1" ish, generally around 200 pounds, and I have big manly man hands, so I am not worried about weight as much as I care about overly ridiculous size. Anything up to the dimensions of an M-16 is acceptable, but I'd prefer it to be smaller.
Caliber: I honestly have preferred everything I've ever shot @ 7.62 NATO over 5.56, but I guess I am willing to be flexible here as well. I would prefer one of these two calibers, as they are readily available and cheap (if you have a better idea here, let me know).
Modularity: I would like a high degree of modularity, as well as the ability to mount useful **** onto the weapon.
Performance: Obviously, I want it to be a tough weapon. Jamming, double feeding, etc constantly like a goddamned M-16A2 is a no go. Also, It wouldn't hurt my feelings if the weapon were fairly easy to clean, STAYED clean for more than 15 rounds, generally wasn't a pain in the ass. More importantly, I want something that is accurate out to about 250-300 meters. Anything more than that is a little silly.
Price: Here is where I am the most flexible. My price range for this little activity is going to be $0-$3000. I don't plan on buying a lot of weapons in my life, so I don't mind to spend a little bit more to get something nice. Also, I get lots of nice discounts. Besides that, I'm not really planning on buying this hypothetical carbine for another 1.5-2 years, meaning I have plenty of time to save up money for it.
Bottom line: I want something that is fun to shoot, accurate, preferably chambered in 7.62 NATO, fairly compact, comfortable to use, and I don't really want it to be an AK-47 or any of its variants.
And here comes the other weapon I want:
2.) A semi-automatic pistol.
Size: I have big man hands and no real twitch reflex from loud noises/explosions.
Caliber: Probably either .40 or .357 (If it ends up being fun to shoot), but I think this will come down to what rounds I am most comfortable shooting. I want something that is heavy on the stopping power, but is still fun to shoot. The cost of ammo isn't a big issue.
Purpose: Shooting at the range for fun. Hopefully not home defense, but you never know (hence the requirement of stopping power). I am in the Army, so I don't plan on carrying (or needing to) during the day.
Performance: Good accuracy, ability to mount basic optics, RELIABILITY. I want this thing to shoot when I squeeze the trigger, dammit.
Price: Again, I'm flexible here. I don't plan on buying this weapon anytime soon (1.5-2 years), so let's say $0-1000.
As you can see, I am not giving a lot of specifics. I am not expecting anyone to give me the "right" answer for me. I know that this will require a large amount of research and work from me.
What I do want from you: Resources. Right now, I have none. I wouldn't begin to know where to look for reviews of guns, and google has not been helpful so far. Also, if you have any specific recommendations (such as why I should give the AK-47 another look, or why I shouldn't bother looking for something in .357) or a particular gun you think I should look at, feel free to let me know. Help me help myself.
My part of this: I realize that I need to go to the range, rent weapons, continue trying out my friends' weapons, blah blah blah. But I would prefer to go there with a much better idea of what to try out than just "uhh, that looks cool."
So. Educate me.
Last edited by Cassius; 11/18/2006 7:46pm at ."No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal
11/18/2006 7:58pm, #2
My standard recommendation is the H&K USP. I prefer .45 acp, but their .40 is also very, very nice.
If you want something with a little more pop, Kimber makes a 10mm in a 1911 frame for around $1000.
The Mini 14 is a pretty cool choice in a 5.56mm (as I may have noted earlier, when I was a kid, every gun in the house was a Ruger).Dave
Originally Posted by jnp
11/18/2006 9:02pm, #3
Again, I'm mostly looking for resources to help me do my own research, but any recommendations will be considered."No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal
11/18/2006 9:39pm, #4
Ar15.com is good for long gun and pistol testamonials.
I will suggest a M-14 aka M-1 Garand from Springfield Armory. Its 7.62 and it is reliable as hell.
For pistols, I am partial to Sigs, Browning/FN hipowers, and 1911's. I really recommend that you check out a hipower, they are extremely good and they point very well (in my hands).
11/19/2006 12:11am, #5Your not on a low budget, go for Sig products! Dont forget the extra clips!
SIG,556The time has come. No other semi-automatic rifle has captured the imagination of the shooting public like the SG 550 series rifle. For years this legendary Swiss made rifle has been restricted to law enforcement and military sales where it has continuously built on its reputation for outstanding performance, accuracy and durability. Now, SIGARMS® has undertaken development and production of a U.S. made version. SIGARMS introduces the new SIG 556. The SIG 556 features the same high-performance two position adjustable gas piston operating rod system engineered by SIG’s sister company Swiss Arms and marries it to a trigger housing that not only cuts the rifle’s weight by a pound but is designed to accept standard AR magazines. The SIG 556 features a 16” military grade cold hammer forged barrel with a twist rate of 1 in 9”. The barrel is locked to the steel receiver through a unique system that allows the user to easily change out the barrel. The forearm housing the gas operating system is a vented non-slip polymer featuring the SIG TriRail design with three integrated Picatinny rails for mounting accessories. There is a forward mount for right or left side sling attachment. The flip up front combat sight is adjustable for windage and elevation. The Picatinny rail equipped receiver is made of high strength carbon steel with a durable wear-resistant Nitron® X rifle finish. The trigger housing is made from a heat treated aircraft grade aluminum alloy with a hard-coat anodized finish designed to survive extreme conditions. The rifle comes equipped with a smooth two-stage trigger. The SIG 556 also features an ambidextrous safety and is designed to accept standard AR magazines. A rugged 30-round polymer magazine is supplied with each rifle. Spare battery compartments are provided in the ergonomically designed pistol grip as well as the rubber padded watertight adjustable butt stock. The butt stock also offers sling attachment points. In addition to the standard model SIG 556 which will begin to ship in late summer of 2006, SIGARMS will also offer the SIG 556 SWAT. The SWAT model will feature the same compact design of the standard SIG 556 with 16” barrel but will feature a flat top Picatinny railed receiver and a tactical quad rail. These two rifles are the first of several new SIG 556 models that are currently in development at SIGARMS. The wait is over. The new U.S. made SIG 556 begins shipping in late summer – because the time has come.
11/19/2006 1:40am, #6
This is the closest rifle I've found to being what I want:
It's a little longer than I wanted, and the more complicated roller-delayed blowback is concerning, but it is supposedly reliable."No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal
11/19/2006 2:18am, #7
Bushmaster AR15 Shortie, with collapsible stock
Mine is heavily modified, about 4 grand in it.
I second the HK pistol, my daily carry is a HK USP .40 Compact.
11/19/2006 3:11am, #8
I like the stock on this one better, While this might be a fine weapon, There are plenty of H&K knock offs that look great but are peiced together and are not fitted correctly, I would sure look into that. The big consideration is clips, The Sig can accept AR clips and they are cheep and readily availble, You can also fit them with the Beta Drum clips if you can get one.
11/19/2006 3:44am, #9
If I could have anything it would be a Short Sig, For now Im stuck with AKs and ARs, I have geographical issues.
11/19/2006 5:21pm, #10
Congratulations; you called magazines "clips" three times and now somewhere in the world three adorable kittens are dead.
Anyway, I won't make any recommendations, except that you keep in mind that you don't have to buy a black plastic rifle if you don't want to. There are all kinds of bolt, lever and semi-auto carbines out there that might be more fun for you if you try 'em. Also if size is a real concern, FN just introduced a 5.56 bullpup that looks pretty neat, and it's significantly shorter than an M4 even with the stock all the way collapsed. You can also get AR pattern rifles in 7.62 NATO from DPMS, Rock River Arms, Armalite and probably a bunch of others. Google AR10.
www.glocktalk.com (has gone way downhill in the last few years; worse signal-to-noise than Bullshido.)
Your figure of $3000 max is pretty high for a production rifle, but don't forget to set some aside for the things that make that rifle useful:
magazines--you can't have too many
ammunition--you can't have too much
case--needs to be a good protective case; who knows where you'll end up taking the rifle?
sights--do you want a scope? A holographic sight, like an Eotech? I don't use them, but most "tactical" guys swear by them. My dad had one on his Ithaca Deerslayer shotgun this year and he loved it. Don't forget you need to mount the sight in a convenient and reliable way.
Spotting scope--if you want to shoot at 100-300 yards, you want to be able to call hits without walking three football fields after every group.