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  1. leere_form is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/14/2006 11:35pm


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Judo has built bad habits?

    i feel like the more restrictive ruleset of judo groundwork has caused me to ignore a lot of possible submissions on the BJJ mat, causing me to fall victim to them and miss opportunities for them.

    admittedly, i'm a total newb in both arts, but i was rolling bjj today and got subbed with an ankle lock. so i did both the gi and the no-gi class today, and here's how it went:

    person A rolls with me in the gi class, and i keep him pinned and sub him several times.

    then person A asks instructor of no gi class about ankle locks and promptly submits me with one on our second go. he informs me that i had been leaving my feet and legs vulnerable all day, he just didn't know what to do with them. i feel like i've gotten a false sense of security from expecting primarily armbars and chokes and shoulder locks.

    now i have been *told* that upper-body submissions are higher-percentage than lower-body submissions, but i don't know that this is true. the no-gi instructor rolled with every single one of us and subbed every single one of us with some kind of leg or ankle lock.

    and of course, i'm watching this happen and thinking "wtf? judo has made me stupid"

    i mean, is this true? is judo groundwork to bjj what boxing is to muay thai, having a vastly more restrictive ruleset but still having value? or will judo make you stupid?

    a lot of you guys practice judo, i know. would you recommend judo groundwork in addition to bjj for any reason, or are the throwing techniques the only reason for a bjj player to study judo?
  2. RoninPimp is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/14/2006 11:48pm

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     Style: Rex Kwon Do

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The Judo ground game, on AVERAGE, is weaker than BJJ. The BJJ standup game, on AVERAGE, is weaker than Judo. They compliment each other perfectly. Look at Dave Camarillo or Rhadi Ferguson for high level examples of their integration. So no, Judo will not make you stupid. It will make you a better athlete in its area of expertise.
  3. Cassius is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/14/2006 11:48pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Generally, I'd say Judo newaza is not going to be a super useful addition to BJJ groundwork (if BJJ is indeed your focus), but it's always nice to get a different perspective. And your club might be one of the lucky ones that teaches solid general newaza (as opposed to newaza designed for Judo tournaments).

    For your first few months, just get as much mat time as possible. Whore the internet to try to get a decent understanding of the concepts of BJJ and Judo (ignore pretty much everything judoforums has to say about BJJ, but pay attention to their posts about Judo). Don't be that guy that posts here again in two weeks asking why your brand new reverse twister octopus guard hybrid that you learned from the latest instructional you dropped 500 dollars on isn't working. Once you start to understand how grappling works, decide for yourself.

    And try not to hurt yourself.
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal
  4. Cassius is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/14/2006 11:50pm

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by RoninPimp
    The Judo ground game, on AVERAGE, is weaker than BJJ. The BJJ standup game, on AVERAGE, is weaker than Judo. They compliment each other perfectly. Look at Dave Camarillo or Rhadi Ferguson for high level examples of their integration. So no, Judo will not make you stupid. It will make you a better athlete in its area of expertise.
    Listen to this man. If enough people do, perhaps he will remove his real picture from his avatar, thus saving thousands from eventual blindness.
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal
  5. leere_form is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/15/2006 12:06am


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The Judo ground game, on AVERAGE, is weaker than BJJ. The BJJ standup game, on AVERAGE, is weaker than Judo.
    yet there are plenty of judo players who are incredibly good on the ground---based on judo rules. if they can defend three points of submission they are "all set" in the ne-waza department. a lot of guys learn to defend chokes, armbars, shoulder locks and then they think they're ne-waza experts.

    i'm just talking about the ruleset, really. the judo clubs i train at don't include the whole ne-waza curriculum, but rather only the stuff you can use in competition.

    so while i think judo players can teach bjj players a hell of a lot about throwing people, you don't see bjj guys saying "oh, um, you can only throw forward throws!"

    which is essentially what i feel like judo guys are doing when they say "don't lock the legs!"

    you know what i mean? i'm not knocking judo at all, it's great. judo takedowns are the ****. judo groundwork will kick everyone's ass who has never done groundwork. but when you're up against a bjj player, with a less restrictive ruleset, he's going to surprise the hell out of you and you're gonna be tapping.

    it's just like, i guess, training boxing for a kickboxing match. i feel like something's being left out, without there being anything at all wrong with boxing.

    i'm not asking if i should train judo.

    i'm just asking about the effects/value of rolling under "judo rules."
  6. Cassius is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/15/2006 12:08am

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by leere_form
    so while i think judo players can teach bjj players a hell of a lot about throwing people, you don't see bjj guys saying "oh, um, you can only throw forward throws!"
    You clearly have not competed in any Gracie affiliated tournaments yet.
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal
  7. leere_form is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/15/2006 12:09am


     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    nope. do they only allow forward throws? =D

    or, even better, they just have awesome throws already and i'm wrong about judo guys having something to teach them.
  8. Cassius is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/15/2006 12:11am

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by leere_form
    nope. do they only allow forward throws? =D

    or, even better, they just have awesome throws already and i'm wrong about judo guys having something to teach them.
    No, but they have other equally humorous antics.

    Just wait. You'll love it.
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal
  9. leere_form is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/15/2006 12:12am


     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    now i'm dying of curiosity...
  10. Cassius is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/15/2006 12:16am

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     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Keep training. You'll see.
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal
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