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View Poll Results: I am OK with people that put more into the "art" than into the "martial"?

Voters
172. You may not vote on this poll
  • Strongly Agree: Aikido would be better without all the fighting.

    2 1.16%
  • Agree: Not everyone wants to fight in the UFC...

    35 20.35%
  • Neither: Silly, but at least they're getting some social contact and light aerobics.

    39 22.67%
  • Disagree: no aliveness? no sparring? Not a martial art.

    66 38.37%
  • Strongly Disagree: **** THOSE BITCHES! I'LL EAT THEIR FACE! XYENCE!

    8 4.65%
  • Comedy Option: Ducks in hats.

    22 12.79%
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  1. Axelton is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/14/2006 3:25pm


     Style: Wing Chun, Hung Gar

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Jonas go make your new entry in Bjj teen for pete's sake!
  2. Stolenbjorn is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/15/2006 6:57am


     Style: Medieval Italian (WMA)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ViciousFlamingo
    That's why the cultural concept didn't stick with me. To me, it is pretty much impossible to recreate an unarmed martial art, since there are no actual documents to rely on, just word of mouth. To think that one could figure out how to "punch just like those Shaolin monks" is not only ridiculous, it's also useless. At most, people would be able to punch just like somebody's teacher did four generations ago. Hell, why bother, it's not like it's any more effective (it's less so, if anything) than modern MMA, it's not like our anatomy has changed. But recreating a WMA, specifically those that are weapon-based, is interesting because nobody fights with longswords on the battlefield anymore, and the correct resurrection of a WMA would give you a non-stagnant, effective MA that can be verified somewhat by historical documents.

    Did that make any sense to you?
    This made perfect sense to me!

    I'm careful and diplomatic when I talk about EMA (eastern)/TMA because I have never trained any EMA/TMA (I'm untainted). Hearing my thoughts presented by someone who do have some experience with EMA/TMA is nice. There is actually people that claim to train WMA that stretch back in unbroken chains of father to son back to the renissanse/medieval-ages, but most of theese are treated rather dismissively by the WMA-community that I belong to, as they have no documentation what so ever to support their claims. And when what they practice is very different from the stuff we find in the manuals from the time they claim their style is from, we all get a feeling that it's all crap.

    The norwegian/english "Viking martial art" system called "Staff" can stand as the best example. Here is a dude from Norway that now lives in England that claims that he taught this Viking quarterstaff-system from his grand-uncle or somthing, and that this was a system that went back in his family to the viking age. People that have attended his seminars says that his quarterstaff-system is a rip-off from diverse japaneese bo-systems, and he actually claims that he went to japan to study staff in order to fill out the blanks from his grand-uncles lessons:pity:
    Last edited by Stolenbjorn; 11/15/2006 7:00am at .
  3. ViciousFlamingo is offline
    ViciousFlamingo's Avatar

    Pingo

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    Posted On:
    11/15/2006 6:43pm


     Style: BJJ & Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Stolenbjorn
    This made perfect sense to me!

    I'm careful and diplomatic when I talk about EMA (eastern)/TMA because I have never trained any EMA/TMA (I'm untainted). Hearing my thoughts presented by someone who do have some experience with EMA/TMA is nice. There is actually people that claim to train WMA that stretch back in unbroken chains of father to son back to the renissanse/medieval-ages, but most of theese are treated rather dismissively by the WMA-community that I belong to, as they have no documentation what so ever to support their claims. And when what they practice is very different from the stuff we find in the manuals from the time they claim their style is from, we all get a feeling that it's all crap.

    The norwegian/english "Viking martial art" system called "Staff" can stand as the best example. Here is a dude from Norway that now lives in England that claims that he taught this Viking quarterstaff-system from his grand-uncle or somthing, and that this was a system that went back in his family to the viking age. People that have attended his seminars says that his quarterstaff-system is a rip-off from diverse japaneese bo-systems, and he actually claims that he went to japan to study staff in order to fill out the blanks from his grand-uncles lessons:pity:
    Yeah, see, all that makes sense. I think the WMA idea is pretty interesting. However, when people say "historical reasons" and "cultural reasons" for TEMA, I think pasty, nerdy, skinny white guys, and I shudder.
  4. Axelton is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/15/2006 6:46pm


     Style: Wing Chun, Hung Gar

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ViciousFlamingo
    Yeah, see, all that makes sense. I think the WMA idea is pretty interesting. However, when people say "historical reasons" and "cultural reasons" for TEMA, I think pasty, nerdy, skinny white guys, and I shudder.
    old asian sensei to nerdy white guy: " YOU WRACK DISCIPRIN !"
    nerdy white guy to old asian sensei: " <takes balls out of mouth> yes sensei ! < puts balls back in mouth>"
  5. UpaLumpa is offline
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    Exasperated.

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    Posted On:
    11/16/2006 4:44pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ducks in hats. Ha.
  6. GoldenJonas is offline

    Light Heavyweight

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    Posted On:
    11/16/2006 4:58pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    See...that's what I said.:laughing4
  7. SimonBelmont is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/16/2006 5:38pm


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah there's probably a lack of respect but that's human nature. People aren't nice on this forum because that's not the primary mission of this forum. If you claim to be the **** and are in fact full of **** then you have to expect people to treat you like... ****. The vast majority of these cases come from so called TMAs but that is a generalization and all generalizations, though accurate statistically speaking, have an incredibly dark and ugly side to them.

    The only people who don't deserve respect are those who judge others on the premise that the sun shines out their bum.
  8. Camus is offline

    Middleweight

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    Posted On:
    12/06/2006 11:14pm

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There is no place for weakness in our battleforged culture.

    Let the weak and delusional be crushed, should they refuse to join us.
  9. FormatC is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    12/07/2006 10:37am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Undeclared

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by patfromlogan
    As pointed out, the poll is not too specific or logical. One could ask how much art vs how much martial? People seem to assume that some schools training can be called martial and some art. What defines art? Obviously, we snicker at silk pj's and kata based arts. But at what point does "more" art become a bad habit.
    Well, you followed up on your original point before I had a chance to agree with you on page 1. I'm with on you this, and I'm actually surprised nobody else has brought it up; the poll implies false dichotomy between the concepts of 'art' and the concepts of 'martial.'

    ---

    Before I get ridiculously long winded; here are my cliffs notes: 'Art' is a concept that applies to every single thing humans do in their life. Everything. If your asking what I think about pajama wearing shadowboxers, then ask that question.

    ---

    Of course, in practice we usually do see these two concepts ('art' and 'martial') separated from each other, but that doesn't mean they are separate by nature. Therefore, asking us to choose one above the other (in the form of a multiple choice poll) is unreasonable. That's why I picked the only answer which stands on its own as a true statement: option 4.

    To understand how the dichotomy is false, consider this example. Say there is a highly competetive, textbook MMA stylist. A martial athelete. He doesn't care about kata. He doesn't have a "sensei". If this person approaches their life (and therefore, their training) with an attitude of honesty and a commitment to becoming their highest self through analysis and pursuit of what is true and natural for them in their training, then that person is immeasurably more the artist than somebody who simply wears a gi and kicks air and does forms. I'm not going to illustrate the contrapositive of this example, I think you see my point. Art is not what you do, it's how you do it.

    Actually, I think it's an insult to modern combative atheletes who take themselves seriously to suggest that sing-songey, air-punching, forms-based atheletes are doing more of an art than they are.

    See?






    edit: yes I realize that I am asking you to reconsider your definition of a word that's used very frequently when all you wanted was probably a simple answer. I apologize.
    Last edited by FormatC; 12/07/2006 10:41am at .
  10. meggaman7 is offline
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    Posted On:
    1/28/2007 3:57am


     Style: Boxing, MMA/MT/BJJ n00b

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I would've picked the next to last choice, but there's no damn way I'd waste the money on XYENCE.
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