Is it a gimmick?

[WhiteShark]

I wanted to start a thread asking if my new sup3r d34dly technique is a gimmick. Then I thought maybe a general thread where we can ask "How gimmicky are the moves that we get away with?" would be better. So here is mine.

Crucifix/Cattlecatch from guard. I thought I had been dong what Aesopian introduced in his "Aconfusion of crucifixes" instructional. It turns out that I am starting from a different position and am faced the other way. It ends up looking like the cattlecatch in this article except my opponent is face down. http://www.grapplearts.com/BJJ-Crucifixes.html

Steps:

Get guard. Sit up as if for a guillotine. Instead hook the far arm and pull up forcing thier head down. Now escape your hips and triangle the near arm with your legs. Flatten/stretch yourself out to apply. If they roll forward just keep tight and apply from your back or other side.

So, Is it gimmick?

[WhiteShark]

Can you break down the "right" combo for me then? I thought you had to tringle tha rm to get full pressure?

[jnp]

Can you break down the "right" combo for me then? I thought you had to tringle tha rm to get full pressure?

If I'm understanding you correctly, deeply scooping the arm with one leg should be sufficient. With your hips well out to the side, just thread your leg around his upper arm as far as you can. Keep your hips tight to his head after you attain position. Bend your leg at the knee past 90 degrees to prevent his arm from slipping out.

It's not a gimmick, but I doubt you'll consistently submit anything other than baby blues and white belts with it. I say this because any grappler with more than two years of quality mat time should be able to sense what you're trying to pull off long before you get there.

[WhiteShark]

jnp gets it. I can see how you don't actually have to triangle your legs now too.

I say this because any grappler with more than two years of quality mat time should be able to sense what you're trying to pull off long before you get there.

When will they try to escape? Is there an opening when I first start to pressure the head?

[Roidie McDouchebag]

Yep. That one breaks the neck ridiculously fast. If you jump through instead of walking, its a done deal.

I can painfully attest to this...the landing isn't so bad, it's the weeks or months of recovery.

I like all the crucifixes, but I wouldn't give this one up for the one WS is talking about. Not worth the trouble.

It's my favourite crucifix...I don't see the advantage to whiteshark's way of going for it.

[WhiteShark]

I'm going for it from the guard. Aren't you guys talking about getting it off a shoot?

Is it using the legs that you guys don't like?

[Roidie McDouchebag]

Villain has fractured the correct's vertebrae.

If I'm going for it in guard and it isn't working, I'm just not going to stay in guard.

[jnp]

When will they try to escape? Is there an opening when I first start to pressure the head?

Exactly. If you have one of my arms or legs scooped anywhere deeply enough to pull off a crucifix there is no way in Hades I'm letting you control my head. I know that if I do give up head control, things will quickly go downhill for me.

Simply put, if you try this on me in the guard, I will know what you're trying to do two or three steps before you get there.

[WhiteShark]

I have no doubt you as a purple belt wouldn't let me do it lol. But what is the escape? When most guys try to roll forward I just end up doing it facing the other way.

[aphasic]

Good guys seem to basically back their head away when I try it, so I never get deep enough to secure the position. As soon as I underhook the far arm, their near arm posts on my torso and pushes away, and the position sort of evaporates.